Sorry, long post, but an important one!
I've read numerous comments from many members here about how little the UK Hotels and function centres pay when they book a DJ for a function. Is this a fair comment?
My observation is this: while they are paying you, rather than the client paying you, there's no way you can control how much you earn there and no way you can prove your true value to the person who is actually having the party.
Example: Wedding, 250 people, Bride is a PA to an executive in a medium sized corporate and the Groom is an accountant in a city firm. Good disposable income because they've got no kids yet. Parents of both are in their 60s and nearing retirement with a good fund saved up and no mortgages any more. These clients want a fun, memorable and tastefully unique wedding that their friends will talk about for years to come.
Hotel or Golf Club or Country Club reception, probably a rather swanky affair all round. These weddings happen every summer in virtually every city in the western world and many of us have entertained at one like it.
Here's the evil bit!
The venue says "Sure, we will arrange a DJ for you so you don't need to worry about a thing. Relax and leave the entertainment to us as we have a few DJs who we have used in the past and can recommend."
The venue charges the couple a decent rate, takes their cut and hey presto, the client ends up with a DJ who is probably earning £250 at most. Further more, the DJ has no chance to introduce himself to the couple in the first instance and discuss in detail how to make this wedding reception as truly dreamy as the Bride has imagined it. Remember that she has dreamed about her wedding day since she was 4 years old and she wants to be a Princess for that day.
How much more value could you add if you didn’t need to get the booking through the venue? The venue doesn’t’ have to worry about tax for you (as soon as they take a cut, you’re probably an employee for the night), they don’t need to be the middle man and they’ll certainly save a lot of time in dealing with this most important part of the night. Meanwhile, you’ll get your full professional fee. Remember that the client is currently paying perhaps £400 for their DJ, although you’re losing a chunk before you even arrive.
So….
How could you start to get the bookings direct with the client instead of using the venue as a booking agent? Your ideas please!
Full Version: Take the client back from the Hotels!
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The problem is that the client will book the venue before the entertainment, at the time of booking if the hotel says we can supply a DJ and Disco and the client says ok then how can we stop this happening ? The only way I can see is by educating the clients that there is another choice and you dont have to go with the venues choice.
Good Scotty, you're seeing the challenge. How would you educate the customer?
Alternatively, what's the advantage to a Hotel if you take care of the whole entertainment side of things directly?
Alternatively, what's the advantage to a Hotel if you take care of the whole entertainment side of things directly?
| QUOTE (Rendezvous @ Oct 20 2005, 11:48 AM) |
| Alternatively, what's the advantage to a Hotel if you take care of the whole entertainment side of things directly? |
I agree with Scotty, so that would be my angle.
Offer my service to the hotel, show them how the way I run my business benefits their customer and looks good on them and state that you are willing to pay them a "referral fee" for every booking that they recommend you for (and subsequently books you).
You then take control of what fee you earn.
| QUOTE (Rendezvous @ Oct 20 2005, 11:18 AM) |
| Here's the evil bit! The venue says "Sure, we will arrange a DJ for you so you don't need to worry about a thing. Relax and leave the entertainment to us as we have a few DJs who we have used in the past and can recommend." The venue charges the couple a decent rate, takes their cut and hey presto, the client ends up with a DJ who is probably earning £250 at most. Further more, the DJ has no chance to introduce himself to the couple in the first instance and discuss in detail how to make this wedding reception as truly dreamy as the Bride has imagined it. |
Evil? Evil?
Richard, you're painting pictures - which is a good selling tactic - well, when its aimed at punters at least - yet its a selling technique which can be received negatively when used on a peer level, which some other members have advised you of in the past.
Richard these are false images, or incorrect ones at least, perhaps distorted by distance - and dont require DJs to hold a wooden crucifix up to the hospitality industry.
At three of my regular venues at which I'm their resident DJ, the venue tell the B&G, exactly what you said above. eg:
| QUOTE |
| "Sure, we will arrange a DJ for you so you don't need to worry about a thing. Relax and leave the entertainment to us as we have a few DJs who we have used in the past and can recommend." |
Nothing evil in having a relaxed bride.
However, heres where things differ from your painted picture. Over the last few years, I've advised the venues to ask the B&G to be, for a convenient date/time for them to meet me (typically its a date/time when I'd be at the venue anyway, but not working at someone elses gig). If you're clever, the venue even provide the refreshments for what invariablely turns out to be around 45 minutes of 2-way idea swapping, nerve-calming, discussion.
Theres a basic tick list which I have pre-printed, but with large spaces for freehand input - Quick note at this point - I've gone back to (pre-printed) paper and pen for this, after finding that a laptop (in particular, its screen) was a barrier, rather than a benefit. So, in this case, writng on a slice of tree works best for me.
None of the venues offer me as one little bit of an unitemised price package - my fee is clearly separated on the B&G's paperwork - not hidden within a "all-in-one-so-you-dont-know-what-each-bit-is-costing-you" deal. The only part of the disco fee which I "lose" is the VAT - which I dont view as an unacceptable loss.
Parts of your picture are realistic, however, not all.
| QUOTE (Gary @ Oct 20 2005, 12:22 PM) |
| Richard these are false images, or incorrect ones at least, and dont require DJs to hold a wooden crucifix up to the hospitality industry. |
I have to disagree with you Gary, whilst you have a good working relationship with your venues, in my experience the outline that Richard provides is the norm rather than the exception.
| QUOTE (StevJam @ Oct 20 2005, 12:28 PM) | ||
I have to disagree with you Gary, whilst you have a good working relationship with your venues, in my experience the outline that Richard provides is the norm rather than the exception. |
Its all too easy to try and tar all with the same brush - what I'm saying is that its not correct to say that every, or even the majority is the way that Richard is trying to describe it.
After all - theres got to be a nice estate agent out there...somewhere. Maybe a traffic warden with a sense of humour... possibly, somewhere, somehow, there are venues which dont talk to their cash registers more than their brides & grooms to be...
Possibly? Nah! Of course there is.
Again...Richards ideas, like any other idea is something which every member can read and make their own mind up as to whether or not it holds water, could add value to their existing working practices, whether or not the ideas in whole, or in part are relevant, useful and pertinent to each individual members specific situations. In the law of averages, some will be, some wont - but always down to the individual.
| QUOTE (Gary @ Oct 20 2005, 12:40 PM) |
| Again...Richards ideas, like any other idea is something which every member can read and make their own mind up as to whether or not it holds water, could add value to their existing working practices, whether or not the ideas in whole, or in part are relevant, useful and pertinent to each individual members specific situations. In the law of averages, some will be, some wont - but always down to the individual. |
Agreed.
| QUOTE (Rendezvous @ Oct 20 2005, 10:18 AM) |
How could you start to get the bookings direct with the client instead of using the venue as a booking agent? Your ideas please! |
Do you mean this ( hypothetical ) hotel in particular or hotel-based receptions in general?
Guy's we were here with this one some time ago. I stated then that I now have an agreement with my hotel, it's been in place nearly 10 years. All weddings come direct to me so that I can get to grips with the requirements of the happy couple, all corporate work goes via the hotel, and the hotel get as much information as possible for me - problem solved.
On the money thing, all invoiced jobs to the hotel are normally paid by BACS in 7 to 14 days, the only variation on this tends to be the last week before Christmas, which I normally get middle / end of January. My only reasoning behind this, and what I'm reading on the boards is, A venue will say "Oh it's only the disco, he's not a real business man, he'll think it's the norm".
Also, I mentioned the other week in another thread that I learnt that the majority of hotels (in the south) from the beginning of this year charge £400.00 + VAT, and pay the DJ ?????????
I increased my rates on the 1st September, and so far, I think I've only lost one booking. The increase was to £395.00 for a standard 4 hours, or £450.00 with an early set up.
On the money thing, all invoiced jobs to the hotel are normally paid by BACS in 7 to 14 days, the only variation on this tends to be the last week before Christmas, which I normally get middle / end of January. My only reasoning behind this, and what I'm reading on the boards is, A venue will say "Oh it's only the disco, he's not a real business man, he'll think it's the norm".
Also, I mentioned the other week in another thread that I learnt that the majority of hotels (in the south) from the beginning of this year charge £400.00 + VAT, and pay the DJ ?????????
I increased my rates on the 1st September, and so far, I think I've only lost one booking. The increase was to £395.00 for a standard 4 hours, or £450.00 with an early set up.
Hi Mike, thats all very well if you've already got a contract with the hotel but I had an issue this week where a client cancelled because they moved venues and the new venue would only allow their resident to perform. 
Do you have a referral scheme in place with the hotel ? I have not gone down this route I will give the staff at my residencies a free disco for their staff parties in Jan which is quiet anyways.
Do you have a referral scheme in place with the hotel ? I have not gone down this route I will give the staff at my residencies a free disco for their staff parties in Jan which is quiet anyways.
As Scotty says, the venue is booked first, the hotel offer their DJ and a large percentage of the B&Gs accept it. After all, "it's only the disco" isn't it?
Getting the customers ahead of this method is something I would love to do, but in the UK, a large ammount of disco work is handled by wedding co-ordinators within the venue. I have personal experience of arriving at Hotels not knowing the first dance etc or any spoecial reqiurements until you get there.
Getting the customers ahead of this method is something I would love to do, but in the UK, a large ammount of disco work is handled by wedding co-ordinators within the venue. I have personal experience of arriving at Hotels not knowing the first dance etc or any spoecial reqiurements until you get there.
Hi Scotty,
No the hotel just pass my number on, then it's up to me. They were thinking along the lines of a "closed shop", but there legal department advised them it may cause more problems than it was worth.
Touch wood, in the last 16 years, i've only had three weddings that have moved venues, one took me with them and the other two booked another disco because they believed I only worked at that hotel, they were upset when I said I wasn't tied to the one hotel.
This brings up an interesting point, if you work a hotel as a "resident", do people not book you because they think you only work there???
No the hotel just pass my number on, then it's up to me. They were thinking along the lines of a "closed shop", but there legal department advised them it may cause more problems than it was worth.
Touch wood, in the last 16 years, i've only had three weddings that have moved venues, one took me with them and the other two booked another disco because they believed I only worked at that hotel, they were upset when I said I wasn't tied to the one hotel.
This brings up an interesting point, if you work a hotel as a "resident", do people not book you because they think you only work there???
Eskie & I have recently become the reccomended supplier to a very prestigious venue, there are 2 options regarding payment etc
Option 1 - on off peak nights that offer a reduced package, where the DJ is included in the price, they have to have us, and we have agreed a price for all this work. The venue passes the clients contact details on to us, and we send them planning forms etc
Option 2 - Peak nights, the client can use whatever DJ they want, but our numbr is passed onto the client as the preffered.reccomended DJ (we charge the client our normal fee's and deal with them throughout)
Option 1 - on off peak nights that offer a reduced package, where the DJ is included in the price, they have to have us, and we have agreed a price for all this work. The venue passes the clients contact details on to us, and we send them planning forms etc
Option 2 - Peak nights, the client can use whatever DJ they want, but our numbr is passed onto the client as the preffered.reccomended DJ (we charge the client our normal fee's and deal with them throughout)
Hi
In respect of taking the bookings from the client rather than from the hotel...simple
Take part in as many Wedding Fayres as you can realistically afford, that way you're very likely going to get to the customer before the venue gets their claws into them.
We didn a Fayre about three weeks ago and have taken £1500 worth of bookings as a result, pretty good return on investment I'd say.
Darren
In respect of taking the bookings from the client rather than from the hotel...simple
Take part in as many Wedding Fayres as you can realistically afford, that way you're very likely going to get to the customer before the venue gets their claws into them.
We didn a Fayre about three weeks ago and have taken £1500 worth of bookings as a result, pretty good return on investment I'd say.
Darren
Not bad that darran nice one!
I wonder if you have laws like our "Fair Trading Act" which basically says that businesses have to allow the consumer the right to choose their own supplier.
For instance, an insurance company can't insist that you take your car to XYZ Panelbeaters only without providing a fair and reasonable reason for doing so.
For instance, an insurance company can't insist that you take your car to XYZ Panelbeaters only without providing a fair and reasonable reason for doing so.
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