There are some things in DJing that just shouldnt be double-clicked, and some that should.

I recently made a gear purchase from Essex DJ (DJU members and Retailers, SEDA members too) - and I must say that I was impressed with the friendly approach, the advice given, the price offered and the overall "flow" of the whole process too.

One of the topics of conversation that came up was that whilst many DJ retailers not only have a physical "bricks'n'mortar" shop, they also have an on-line webpage, there are some on-line suppliers who have no premises, no interest in the products, wouldnt know a Bulgin plug from dip switch but do manage to "box-shift" gear from their bedrooms and garages at stunning prices.

However is price everything... ?

Heres the "Dilemma" scenario for you:

You've been a DJ for a while, you get along with all your current gear fine, you know what all those buttons and knobs on your mixer do, you're happy with every feature on your CD-deck, and you've even worked out that leaving the 250watt bulbs to cool down for more than 10 minutes after they blow, is a pretty good way of not burning your fingers...

But..you've decided that the time has come to upgrade your overhead lighting to something that'll look and perform better. You're entering the DMX jungle...

After a bit of surfing around, posting on DJU to get some answers, disspell some myths, and rule out certain makes and models, you've narrowed it down to a short list of 4 different makes and models of DMX lights, and you've definately chosen one particular DMX controller.

You've been to a helpful local (ish) DJ equipment Retailer on a wet Wednesday (not a hectic Saturday morning), been offered a mug of coffee (with a distributors name all round the outside of it), and even a choccie digestive (that well known deal clincher).

With the shop staffs advice - you've now managed to narrow it down (after several litres of Tropical scented smoke, and more coffee) to your chosen controller and a pair of ideal DMX lights, which have got some fairly innovative features - the design strikes you as a little less robust than the other lights, but its performance easily outstrips the other lights available. It takes about 2 hours to go through all the lights, their features, their benefits, their not-so-good bits'n'pieces etc. During this time, you note especially that during some technical explanations (explained carefully and clearly) the dealer has ignored the phone several times, to ensure that his careful examples aren't interupted.

Its now down to the nitty-gritty.

The shop advises you that the "normal" price for the controller and the 2 lights, comes to a total of £1000 with a flightcase for the lights. However, the shop offers you the 3 items, complete with the flightcase and 3 interconnecting DMX leads for £900 all-in, including bulbs.

The only remaining concern you've got is price - you're aware that some of those box-shifting internet know-nothings, might well offer you a better deal. However, you're also aware that the shop staff spent alot of time with you showing you all the in's and out's, and didn't simply try to get you waltzing out the door with the most expensive bits available, and a freshly signed second mortgage.

You start surfing and find various prices (for the entire package, leads, flightcases etc) from sites that have no after-sales backup, no equipment knowledge, and in some cases not even a contact phone number - just a "double-click here to enter your credit card number" box...

The dilemma is...at what on-line price would you ditch the helpful dealer? Wallet Vs Guilty conscience (perhaps)

Great thread!

I could sit here and say I would support my local shop (come what may) but I would be lying

There is a financial point (and for me I have put £50 and above) at which I may make the decision to buy elsewhere.

I will always try and buy consumables (lamps etc.) at the lowest price point and then it really depends on loads of factors (price being one) wether or not I buy from a local dealer or from the cheapest place I can find.

Isn't it human nature to shop around?

Isn't it sound business sense to negotiate the best price you can?

I also think that more DJ's getting to know each other (through forums, associations etc.) makes it easier to find help when you are in a tight spot (say your lights fail or your speakers explode!), so you don't need to rely on a retailer for support.

Besides, you can bet your lighting fails on a Saturday night rather than when your local dealer is around

I haven't voted on this, because I take a slightly more complicated view of this than price. If it's easy for me to get to a specific dealer (say I'm in the area) then I'll buy from the dealer. If it's something simple and unlikely to go wrong, then I will probably go down the Internet route.

So, some examples - I bought my CD players from a dealer. I wanted to see them before I bought them (despite having pretty well made up my mind based on online reviews and opinions). I also bought my mixer from a dealer, because I wanted to take a look at a variety of mixers before I decided. I bought my coffin case online - because I needed it in a hurry and I hadn't seen one for my setup at any dealers. I buy a lot of CDs online because I can't buy them in the UK.

So, I do a mix of online and real world purchasing, but it's usually not price that determines it. In fact, looking back at what I've written, it looks more like it's availability that's the deciding factor.

good thread here.
again i'm a bit of a mix and match kind of guy.
my decks mixer amp etc all came off of ebay at a rate a shop just couldnt compare to.
however when it comes to cd players i can fix them fairly easy having worked for a well known audio company for several years.

a lot of the factor for me somtimes does come down to the price as i havent been up and running for long so the difference between my local shop and ebay for an effect does add up quite substantially. for instance the source abyss 2 can be delivered to my door for £50 or i could go to my local retailer and buy it for £100 or £90 cash.

when it comes to upgrading to higher end equipment i shall be taking a different view.
for instance the acme dmx 4 pack often comes up at the same price on ebay as you can buy it for retail. so it seems silly not to tke the support offered that shops can provide.

think its a tough choice to make and newcomers like myself will always go for the cheaper option.

These are quite reassuring results in fact, what with 22% of those who voted (so far) stating that they would buy from the retailer who helped them, regardless of the internet price.

Nice also, to see that very few would ditch the helpful dealer for the sake of a few quid difference.

This is tricky.
The other week I was in the only local supplier(70 mile round trip) and the only cd player they had in stock was a Numark CDN-22 MK4 .Price £235 that's almost £100 over web prices.
I appreciate overheads etc but surely they are cutting their own throats.

What we need is someone like CP,sure they have to make money but will not sell you any old tat.

I recently bought some mackie srm450`s... I knew what they were all about and how much they were.....

All prices on the net where £929.00...

To be honest I would indeed prefer to give my local shop the business , so off I popped to see them..

They have a pair in stock but they wanted £1050.00. I told them I wanted a pair but they were £120 more expensive than other retailers. I asked if they would price match? They asked me where I had seen the same cabs for £929.00.

After checking up they said they would price match, so the deal was done.

The moral of the story is; ask the more expensive dealer if they will match the slightly cheaper price. I think when you are spending such money most retailers WILL price match to get the business in this competitive market.

It all depends on what you class as friendly and helpful.

My local retailer, if you bought a CD player with bad lasers (when would that happen???) would initially fix it pretty much on the spot. Like drop it in the morning, collect it in the evening. This was done not by paying some yob £15 an hour to swop mechs. It was done properly, using oscilloscopes and suchlike to set the supposedly unadjustable mechs.

He did not know this at the time, but I could buy my stuff a waaaaaaaay cheaper in America. It was easy for me. It's not easy for a lot of people but it was for me.

However, just like I frequently buy ready meals in Tesco at enormous markup for convenience, I CHOSE to spend my money to buy the bundle of product and service I wanted.

Then he went from driving a Ford to driving a posh car. Then he bought a house. Then he started wearing flash clothes. Then he started hanging out with the local bigshots. Then he started blathering on about unadjustable mechs and how things had changed. Then he started talking about CDR record rates.

Then I started shopping in Germany (which by this stage was almost as cheap as the US and required no stepdown transormer to work). I still get a fail rate of approx 1 in 2 CD players on lasers. Only rarely send them back to Germany to exercise warranty, most times I take them to a local tech.

He adjusts the "unadjustable mechs". He primes the circuits on the board. Every machine leaves him reading all discs, written at all speeds, copy protected disks read on them and CDs with graphics read on them. This is performance better than the manufacturer alleges is possible.

Guess the manufacturer prefers to lie about the capabilities of their machines to make their dealers' lives easier.

Unexpected bonus. German shop noticed I hardly ever exercise warranty, unless the machine is a right screw-up. So, uninvited they announce they will give me a bigger discount.

Meanwhile, the retailer put 2+2 together and got five. Contacted the distributor for the product saying he "knew" they were supplying me. The distributor rang me and took me to task for lying (I know him personally). I of course told him the real story. He then pleads with me not to do that, but support the retailer!!!

This is la-la-land. Everyone counts but the consumer in this setup.

Retailers need to get out of their Mercs and back into the workshop. Provide real suport and real product knowledge. When last did you see a car sent back to Corley to get fixed?

They have deflated their own industry.

Nearly 5 years ago, a CD player laser went up the creek and stopped reading some CDs.

I took it into the local DJ shop and found it needed re-allignment.

The service was friendly and helpful.

5 years later, the service is different, not so friendly or helpful.

The owner of the shop has purchased a property in Spain and an 'oik' serves behnid the counter with little experience.

Having spent over £15k over the years in this one shop, I've now looked elsewhere.

Sounds about right.