Some of the original digital out sockets on equipment of a few years ago, did have digital out sockets which had certain limitations on them - eg: Only sent digital out signals when the pitch control was at 0%, no scratching, or pitch bending etc. One example of this was the MK1 version of the Pio CJD-1000 (they updated this on the MkII)

Luckily the more recently released CD-decks from most of the main suppliers allow digital output whilst any and all functions are in use.

Uh?!

I thought the whole object of using digital was to eliminate noise. Ah well.

You may have a MK1 version of the DN-X800. Can you PM me the serial number. I might be able to assist.

Fear not Marky, DJ mixers which offer digital inputs will have analogue inputs on them too - even mixers with digital inputs on every channel, will often have a selection switch (between analogue/digital) per channel.

This means that you can easily play from a CD-deck running from Digital Outs connected to a mixers digital ins, then mix in an analogue input on another channel of the same mixer.

I too used to feel the same way as you when you said:

Its the usual addage of "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link".

However, if the link between a digital device and a mixers digital "in" is stopping that "link of the chain" from being a weak link in the audio chain, then its a step in the right direction.

To put it another way - if any analogue link/cable in an audio setup has a 0.2% detrimental effect on an audio passage, but a digital link/cable has only a 0.1% detrimental effect on the audio passage, then using digital links where possible could be seen, in this theorhetical example, as beneficial.

Wonder if theres a digital speaker out there yet? rather than just "Digital ready"

But you are assuming still that the DACs in the mixer will sound better than the DACs in the CD player

At some point all that digital sound still needs to be made analog so do you leave it to your mixer or the sound enginers who designed the CD player ???

Digital Amps are with us now but sadly there price rules them out....

Yes, but maybe its not assumption.

Little has changed since the '80s in the realm of "How do we get audio off of a CD?" - indeed little can change, whilst R&D have to work within the parameters which have to be adhered to for them to legitimately slap the official "CD" logo on the equipment and/or Point of Sale blurb etc.

However, there are alot of newly developed devices designed recently with digital traffic firmly in mind.

Also, I know exactly what you mean about the cost of digital amps - even the ones without flashy LCD graphic displays are "a bit on the pricey side" at the moment, but that'll change in time. Not that I'd rush out and buy one when my current amps are working perfectly, but if/when it comes time to replace the current ones, I'll certainly look at digital amps - then its just the crossover, equaliser, compressor/limiter etc...

Behringer already do a Digital Equaliser and Digital Crossover with built in compressor/limiter at a price that most pro DJ's can afford.

Using these products with a fully digital mixer (ie digital in/out) would mean that the signal would be digital from the recording studio to just before the inputs to your amps, resulting in very in little (if any) loss of quality, and a very low noise floor.

At present, the bigest missing link is a resonably priced fully digital mixer. I'm saving up for a Pioneer DJM-1000, but hope that Denon will bring out a MKII version of their DN-X1500 with digital inputs before I've got enougth for the DJM-1000. I'm sure other mixer manufacturers will be bringing out fully digital DJ mixers in the next year.

Because analogue mixers, eq, processors, etc, all affect the sound quality. If you can do all these functions in the digital domain, and convert to analogue at the last possible point you will get a very noticable improvement in sound quality - when running from CD or other digital source, I accept your point about running from vinyl.

Oh, and sound engineers also design mixers, crossovers, processors, etc, so why would the Digital to Analogue conversion in any one of these products be worse than the conversion in the CD player?

I should also point out that many digital input amps, are basically normal analogue amps with a digital to analogue circuit on the input (oftern built in digital limiting and crossover/eq). After all, a speaker cone will always need a high power analogue signal to move it, and Digital to Analogue converters only produce a low level output.

Therefore using a normal analogue power amp with an otherwise fully digital system will not be much of a loss.

If anyone was going to...

Should I be visiting PLASA this year, Gary?

Of course you should...there's so little distinction, if any between what audio a club would use, and what audio a professional mobile could use that it's always worth visiting PLASA when you're in the market for audio.

This reply isnt supposed to critisize your particular (and un-named) make/models of CD and Minidisc recorder - honest. If it comes across like that, then bare in mind that you didn't mention the makes/models anyway...

Right then... many units which have got DIGITAL OUT will indeed take the "feed" for that socket directly (in digital format) from a digital stage in the device - eg: from just behind the CD lens as it were... similarly, many digital recorders will take the digital signal from the digital input socket and will pass it (still in digital form) to the recording stage in the circuit - eg: No digital to Analog conversion, or vice versa.

Some units, usually for reasons of cost, and keeping the retail price down, will be essentially an analogue device, but with a conversion stage directly behind the digital in, or out.

What you were told, would certainly describe some of the more cost-conscious makes/models, but not all devices.

Sometimes these conversion stages are used beneficially too, so, they're not always a detrimental thing. For example: The Denon DN-X1500 mixer accepts 8 analogue stereo signals, or normal red/white pairs of phono sockets. The moment that these analogue signals enter the mixer, they are instantly converted by very high rate convertors to pure digital. All processing of the "sound" eg: its input gain, its EQ, the fader levels etc...are all done in the digital domain - as is the digital output connector. The digital "sound" only gets translated back into analogue for analogue needs eg: Headphone socket, and the various analogue outputs to XLR, REC out etc.

So Gary, is the new DN-X900 fully digital, or a "cost-conscious" analogue mixer with DAC's on the input, and an ADC on the output?

I'm getting the answer for you on that in the next few days, either from New York (who are all on a jolly at the moment at their (huge!) version of PLASA), or Japan.

Gimme a few days and I'll let you know - I'm keeping my fingers crossed for digital all the way through - but with so little uptake at the moment on digital in/outs (and I realise that its a bit of a viscious circle, that someone has to break the trend on), I can understand why it might be analogue mainly with high quality D/A A/D stages. - but either way, I'll let you know.

The DJM1000 that you're interested in has 4 digital in's (2 of its 6 channels are analogue only) and thats £1999(dream on Pio). for an otherwise basic wedge mixer.

Exactly right Gary - like I said, these were just simple, consumer units that I had at home. The CD player was about £50 from Richer Sounds (I stopped buying decent gear at home after the kids started stuffing jam sandwiches into any device with an opening) and the minidisk was a walkman type thingy from Sharp - it's about 7 years old.

I appreciate that there are better devices on the market that are more truly digital.

Cheers,

Jack.

LOL

Im so glad mine are past that age!!

Now its just....lend me a tenna that youll never gat back

Right then...answer received (From New York, as it happens).

The DN-X900 uses Ultra High Optimism Quality Digital to Analog conversion at the digital input stages, analog/VCA in the middle technology in the middle, then Ultra High Optimism Quality Analog to digital conversion at the digital output stages.

It was estimated that a mixer with a totally digital path would lose sales due to the retail price needing to be considerably higher, at this time.

Perhaps not the answer that you thought that you were after, but at least its answered - and you've still got an enhanced choice of mixers with 4 digital IN's, one is going to be around £600, the other, around £2000.

And of course....

Thanks Gary.

I'll think I'll wait for ....