I would like to learn about looping, CUE1, CUE2, etc. Is there a resource that could aid me with this information, or is it something I need to 'play' with?
Similarly, the Mixer. I'm quite often afraid to set-up my wireless mic following a gig where the feedback killed a tweeter. However, following a discussion on here last year where we discussed the Behringer feedback destroyer, I approached my local DJ shop about it. They said it was unnecessary if the mixer was set up correctly...so I have been trying to master that little skill. I'm now in the position of lacking confidence to set up the mixer with the wireless mic optimally. I've also been put off the Behringer.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Full Version: CD & Mixer questions
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Ok firstly the feed back distroyer would have saved you the speaker repair bill, so get your self one it makes sence in the long run...
Yes you can setup a mic so that it does not feed back by turning it down or off but that wont stop joe public banging it to see if it is on and walking infront of your sound system with it....
Only reason i dont use one is that my mic is on a wire and i dont stand in front of my system with it......
when you say looping do you mean looping a sample or track or do you mean send and return for effects ????
Yes you can setup a mic so that it does not feed back by turning it down or off but that wont stop joe public banging it to see if it is on and walking infront of your sound system with it....
Only reason i dont use one is that my mic is on a wire and i dont stand in front of my system with it......
when you say looping do you mean looping a sample or track or do you mean send and return for effects ????
| QUOTE (DJ Marky Marc @ Mar 18 2005, 03:49 PM) |
| Ok firstly the feed back distroyer would have saved you the speaker repair bill, so get your self one it makes sence in the long run... |
Ohh well, now then - why would the shop tell you that you wouldnt need a feedback destroyer - they dont sell replacement speaker drivers by any chance do they? ???
To be honest - there are some shops which will put profits (such as driver sales) before true customer service - especially back in the old days, but now, thankfully customer service seems to be more the primary goal of the few remaining disco shops (although there will always be exceptions).
As has been covered elsewhere on DJU, a feedback destroyer isnt magic, it simply listens for feedback building, and (ideally) at the first hint of any particular frequency rising quickly, the feedback destroyer uses a couple of tight notch filters either side of that err'ing frequency and cuts the volume (db) of that particular "quarantined" frequency, for a short time - hopefully breaking the feedback loop - which to be fair, might only have been present as Bruce the host walked straight past the speaker stack with the mic pointing at the midrange.
A feedback destroyer will often give only intermittently successful results in a really dire, constant feedback location - For example:- about the worst place that I've ever performed at was a huge hotel in its own grounds with a huge glass dome conservatory on the side - and we were in...you guessed it - the huge glass conservatory - loads of nice shiny, hard, reflective surfaces everywhere - walls? glass! Ceiling? Glass! Dancefloor? hard shiny wood... ouch! - and the in-house speakers - one in each corner (corners? in a round room?) all pointing in, toward the centre of the dancefloor. No curtains at the windows either - nightmare. The venue did have a feedback destroyer but it was having a really tough time of it - the result was that the mic frequency and volume was level, then rising (with a hint of feedback), then dropping (as the FB destroyer cut in), then sounding flat/dull (with the FB destroyer in action), then ok, then rising again....and so on... and that was with a Shure SM58, not venturing out from behind the decks. If I ever go there again - I'm taking my own soft fabric gazebo to set up in...or stick an opened unbrella over my shoulder to give the mic some defense from the walls and the ceiling reflections.
Loops?
What would you like to know about loops? What unit have you got?
| QUOTE |
| when you say looping do you mean looping a sample or track or do you mean send and return for effects ???? |
NO IDEA!!
I just want to be able to loop some music to enable me to talk over the start of a track or to extend a track for timing reasons, etc.Gary - the shop do do repairs...plus, they sell Behringer units as well.
| QUOTE |
| Loops? What would you like to know about loops? What unit have you got? |
I have a SoundLAB CDJ620A. As supplied by your friendly Congleton Sound and Lighting specialist.
More details:
The top of the range dual CD player designed for and by professional DJ's. It combines superb ergonomics with essential features that let pros perform like only they know how. The CDJ620A offers professional DJs all of these features:
bullet
20 second Anti-Shock
Program Play
Digital Output
2 Cue Memories
Continuous/single play modes
Search and locate frame accuracy
Loop facility and pitch bend with joystick control
19" Rackmount design
1 bit 8 x oversampling DAC
Fast forward/reverse shuttle
| QUOTE |
| Gary - the shop do do repairs...plus, they sell Behringer units as well |
Virtually no margin on Behringer?? Speaker supply & repair = more money
| QUOTE |
| Loop facility and pitch bend with joystick control |
this is the bit you need to read up on and then practice...
If its anything like my Denon then you basicly push one button to mark the start of your loop and then another button to mark the end of the loop...
the cd player will play this over and over again untill you tell it to stop.....
its dead easy once you get the hang of it but sound pants when you first start trying to get it right....
I would be happy to show you how its done, if your in the area pop in..
If its anything like my Denon then you basicly push one button to mark the start of your loop and then another button to mark the end of the loop...
the cd player will play this over and over again untill you tell it to stop.....
its dead easy once you get the hang of it but sound pants when you first start trying to get it right....
I would be happy to show you how its done, if your in the area pop in..
Thanks for that Marc. Any thoughts on good tracks to practice to? The drum intro on Billie Jean springs to mind.
Also, any tips for actually looping? For example, should I loop at the beginning of a bar on the snare beat?
If I get chance I'll have a practice tomorrow.
Many thanks again.
Also, any tips for actually looping? For example, should I loop at the beginning of a bar on the snare beat?
If I get chance I'll have a practice tomorrow.
Many thanks again.
The best way to make loops for talkover would be to use software on your PC.. you can then play around with different tracks until you find something you like. Once you've made a few 5min long loops just burn to a CD and take along a portable CD player to just play this one CD.. much easier than trying to do it live.
steve wright used to loop the beat from micheal jacksons thriller, it was the bit from the end of the song where vincent price starts talking, sounded really good as a bed for a V/O.
creative wavestudio I believe lets you, loop edit, sample etc.
......Tommy, you can use the edit button above if you remember something to add to your post
creative wavestudio I believe lets you, loop edit, sample etc.
......Tommy, you can use the edit button above if you remember something to add to your post
Firstly Richard, you'll need to establish whether the loop offered on your unit is a seamless loop, or just an "A-B loop" (non-seamless; theres a slight, but noticeable gap as the loop re-starts)
Lets say its seamless...
Next, you'll have two buttons, one to set the beginning of the loop, the other to set the end of the loop. These might be called Loop in and Loop out, or "A Point" and "B Point", "Loop in" and "Loop out"...we'll call em "A" & "B"
You'll also have some method of breaking the loop, for when you want the loop to stop looping back to A, when it gets to B, and instead just play the rest of the track from B onwards, eg: After you've finished your voice-over etc. Again this button has many names "loop exit", "exit", exit/re-loop" etc. Some loop exits share their button with the button that sets the "A" point.
Now...its a case of counting and music phrasing. This is the element of most tracks, where you can count 1,2,3,4 1,2,3,4...or more interestingly, count up to 8 or 16 etc, before returning to 1.
Essentially, you want to hit "A" (loop start) on the count of 1, and hit "B" (loop end) the next time you'd be saying "1", so instead of it playing the 17th beat, its playing beat 1 again.
Do your voice-over, introduction, mixing, or simply extend any popular record in this way, and hit "loop exit" when you'd like the rest of the song to be played, from after the B point.
It'll take practice, different units offer different latencies eg: you press the button on "1" and it doesnt notice the press until a fraction of a second later. I've noticed this particularly on hardware controllers for laptop software.
Some cd-decks will also let you edit the A & B points live, so you can nudge a slightly off beat A or B point, forward or backward a smiggin, in case you didn't get it spot on, on the first go.
Now, those Cue 1, Cue 2 buttons. Effectively, they give you the ability to jump straight to another part of the track instantly, Some units will allow you to set the Cue points to be in other tracks on the same CD, for instant jumping between songs.
You unit will normally either have a "rec" (record) type button, or a "clear/reset" button to be used in conjunction wirh the Cue1 and Cue2 buttons, so that it knows what you want it to do. eg: while the tracks playing in your headphones press Rec, then Cue1 on the beat (or word) that you want to be able to jump to. Then just press Cue1 on its own, when you want to start playback instantly from your previously defined point.
Happy playing
urm, I mean practicing... 
Lets say its seamless...
Next, you'll have two buttons, one to set the beginning of the loop, the other to set the end of the loop. These might be called Loop in and Loop out, or "A Point" and "B Point", "Loop in" and "Loop out"...we'll call em "A" & "B"
You'll also have some method of breaking the loop, for when you want the loop to stop looping back to A, when it gets to B, and instead just play the rest of the track from B onwards, eg: After you've finished your voice-over etc. Again this button has many names "loop exit", "exit", exit/re-loop" etc. Some loop exits share their button with the button that sets the "A" point.
Now...its a case of counting and music phrasing. This is the element of most tracks, where you can count 1,2,3,4 1,2,3,4...or more interestingly, count up to 8 or 16 etc, before returning to 1.
Essentially, you want to hit "A" (loop start) on the count of 1, and hit "B" (loop end) the next time you'd be saying "1", so instead of it playing the 17th beat, its playing beat 1 again.
Do your voice-over, introduction, mixing, or simply extend any popular record in this way, and hit "loop exit" when you'd like the rest of the song to be played, from after the B point.
It'll take practice, different units offer different latencies eg: you press the button on "1" and it doesnt notice the press until a fraction of a second later. I've noticed this particularly on hardware controllers for laptop software.
Some cd-decks will also let you edit the A & B points live, so you can nudge a slightly off beat A or B point, forward or backward a smiggin, in case you didn't get it spot on, on the first go.
Now, those Cue 1, Cue 2 buttons. Effectively, they give you the ability to jump straight to another part of the track instantly, Some units will allow you to set the Cue points to be in other tracks on the same CD, for instant jumping between songs.
You unit will normally either have a "rec" (record) type button, or a "clear/reset" button to be used in conjunction wirh the Cue1 and Cue2 buttons, so that it knows what you want it to do. eg: while the tracks playing in your headphones press Rec, then Cue1 on the beat (or word) that you want to be able to jump to. Then just press Cue1 on its own, when you want to start playback instantly from your previously defined point.
Happy playing
urm, I mean practicing...
Wow, thanks for that wonderful explanation Gary - I am pretty sure I played with the mixer last year and was extrememly disappointed because I couldn't get it to loop 'properly'. This may be because of the A-B loop rather than seamless loop. I'll have to do some more playing.
As for the cueing, more homework!
Great explanation though matey - thanks again!
As for the cueing, more homework!
Great explanation though matey - thanks again!
Yes I agree, you're better doing it at home and pre-recording a loop onto a cd.
| QUOTE (superstardeejay @ Mar 23 2005, 08:16 PM) |
| Yes I agree, you're better doing it at home and pre-recording a loop onto a cd. |
waa?
Years ago CD player loops used to be non-seamless, difficult to set, and impossible to edit without simply deleting them and starting the loop process off all over again. However CD-decks brought out in the last 3 or 4 years have changed all that. 
The downside with pre-made loops/samples eg: A cd of just looped intros is that thats all they are - loops - not the rest of the song. And you'll never know until the night, which songs need to be longer - and which dont need looping.
Once you're ready for the loop to finish and the song to continue from the point after the loop - it can be awkward to make the transition.
Richard, you'll probably find that if you're talking over a non-seamless loop, few people will notice the gap anyway - at least in quieter intros like Billie Jean... ok, if you're looping something with a very noisy intro, such as "Five colours in her hair" then it might be noticable even under the voice over.
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