I'm thinking about getting a smoke/haze machine. I've been looking on e-bay and there are some on there for £28. Obviously you've got to be careful in alot of venues as they have detectors fitted so I was going to buy just a small cheap one to enhance my lights. Is it wise to steer clear of these cheap machines or are they ok?

If you pay cheap you pay twice.


You only get what you pay for

I'm not sure we should step into a family disagreement here He who holds the purse strings wins!

QUOTE (Loz @ Jun 1 2003, 10:59 PM)

I'm thinking about getting a smoke/haze machine. I've been looking on e-bay and there are some on there for £28. Obviously you've got to be careful in alot of venues as they have detectors fitted so I was going to buy just a small cheap one to enhance my lights. Is it wise to steer clear of these cheap machines or are they ok?

I just use a basic soundlab smoke machine 700 watts, its fine for what I need it for , enhancing the lightshow.

If you are doing largish or younger dance type venues , then go for one above a 1000 Watts. it will give you lots more smoke with a longer throw ...

You wont need a smoke machine if you take me & Mikee along
....he he..

Buying anything cheap is a bit of a lottery. However, providing that you get a full minimum of 12 months Warranty then £28 for 12 months worth of use isn't bad.

I will say that sales of Smoke Machines are falling somewhat, due to new fire equipment legislation - Managers are less keen to turn off certain area's of fire detection in their venue - most, just ban foggers totally. Based on this I don't think that mobiles can justify paying £100+ for a fogger which in 12 months may only be used for 1 gig in 20!.

Chris,
you have hit the nail on the head. I have had a smoke ( fog ) machine now for over 7 years, had JEM foggers and now Antari. Being i do mainly corporate now, the public half the time dont want smoke in there faces etc,
I now go out with 8 par 56s and use a pair of moon flower effects 90% of the time
when i can use smoke! i stick up a full martin MX-1 scanner and acrobat show, and in the smoke its amazing, but then its a gamble because the venue might ask for it to be turned off.


ade

Fog machine I use only at a couple of venues, looks great with the lights, rest of the time I use a hazer, but at £20/ltr its much more expensive. But smoke machine for under thirty quid must be worth a gamble, that is 25p per gig IF you use it twice a week.

Bringing us back on to topic again!!

I have a cheap 700W fog machine that has lasted for about a year now-and still no problems and it come with 12 months warranty ( oh now-12 months has gone, means it might go soon!!!touch wood )

So, the question now is Do I fog or Do I haze??????

QUOTE (Loz @ Jun 2 2003, 10:39 PM)

So, the question now is Do I fog or Do I haze??????

A hazer is more discrete, but much more expensive , no where near that £28

I sometimes use a cooling fan, the kind with a spring clamp you can clip to a table etc , i then attach it to the hanging bracket of the smoke machine . this dissapates the cloud of smoke as soon as you press the smoke button , giving a similar effect to a hazer (but cheaper on the pocket)

Like you say, the hazers are alot more expensive. I have hired smoke machines in the past and used a fan to blow the smoke away just to give a mist effect. It's just with most places having smoke detectors I didn't how sensitive they are.

HAZEWITHOUT A QUESTION,
DON'T LET OFF ALARMS, NO SMELL, PEOPLE DON'T EVEN KNOW ITS ON UNTIL YOU TURN YOUR LIGHTS ON

There are 3 main types of smoke / fire detector. Optical, ionization & Heat Rise.

Optical:- Uses an infra red led beam to sense any form of smoke to trigger an alarm state. This is the most sensitive form of detector, and very likely to trigger whether you use smoke or haze.

Ionization:- Detects particles in the air, these work in a similar manner to the household detectors. Will trigger with standard smoke machines, but less likely to trigger when used with a light level of haze.

Heat Rise:- Detects fire by the rapid temperature build up over a set time period. Doesn't trigger with any form of smoke.

Unfortunately, the first two types are the more popular types used in venues and public buildings , and therefore more likely to be false triggered by your smoke / hazer. It is wrong to assume that a hazer will NOT set of a fire detector and many people have bought them for this purpose, and have been disapointed when they have managed to evacuate entire hotels!. If you are in a venue where the optical sensors are in use, then using either smoke OR haze will set of the alarm

You are less likely to trigger an ionisation type, but keep the haze levels light and as far away from the detector as possible, because the risk is still there - abeit a very small risk.

A large percentage of detectors have the type printed on the bottom, so you can tell which type it is by looking. The most popular detectors are manufactured by a company called "Gent". If their logo is on the detector, then you can assume that it is one of the first two types, so leave the smoke machine in the car / van!

More useless information for you!

Sorry, didn't mean to shout


I must pay more attention to my work I must pay more attention to my work I must pay more attention to my work I must pay more attention to my work I must pay more attention to my work I must pay more attention to my work I must pay more attention to my work I must pay more attention to my work

Nope you got it right in the first four words I'm sure Chris will be delighted !!!

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I must pay more

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I must pay more

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I must pay more

Last year I saw a smoke machine advertised that uses ice cubes as 'fuel' and seem to recall that it won't set off smoke detectors.
Has anyone tried this and does it do what it says on the label?
Paul S

Hmmm, sounds more like the conventional "Dry Ice" machines that use frozen "Dry Ice" (Carbon Dioxide) to create the heavy lying fog effect found on stage and TV shows.

Dry Ice machines are effective, but very expensive and the frozen nitrogen is difficult and dangerous to handle (Goodbye fingers )

More info on Dry Ice machines can be found HERE

I've just found the info - it's an ICE 100, from Antari, which can use traditional ice cubes or dry ice. I don't know how much it costs but looking at the spec the size would rule it out for most mobile users

Paul S

mmmmmm!! The jury seems to be out on this one, I suppose most of the time it would work fine, but there is a risk of becoming Mr unpopular. Especially if everyone has to go outside during the winter!! Thanks for sharing your opinions with me it's given me something to think about if I do decide to go ahead at a later date.

Put it this way haze or smoke, if people have to go outside you're using too much!! Its only supposed to set the lighting off not prevent people seeing each other!

I dont use artificial smoke at all now, as most of my gigs are on the Hotel circuit.

However, when I do the occasional "favour" gig elsewhere, in village halls etc, then I normally rent 1 small smoke machine (Or buy one from Argos/Index...and take it back on the 16 day money back guarantee... )

I much prefer to have the machine on low output 50% of the time (off for the other 50%) rather than BURSTS of thick smoke 10 times throughout the evening.

A great trick that I've used several times with Smoke is to take along several lengths of U shaped guttering which I lay upside down in a line, infront of the disco's lightboxes/screens. Next prop the front of the gutting up SLIGHTLY...eg with a few pens along the length... Then (of course) fire the smoke machine nozzles into one end of the guttering.... you get a fairly even rising curtain of smoke, which can be lit to blinding levels with a simple 500w halogen patio light just behind the guttering, facing straight up... a great change to the big balls of smoke that you get normally.

The other trick is to place an oscalating fan behind/in front of the smoke machine, as this helps dispersion...

I would strongly recommend looking at the Antari site, regarding the long term health issues of breathing in theatrical smoke...I felt poorly/run-down for several weeks a while ago after a Christmas stint of 30 odd gigs over a 5 week period, and it was put down to Crystals of 1. Ethylene glycol, reagent grade.* 2. Propylene glycol in my blood...both of which are found in some brands of Smoke Fluid. (At this point, I'd like to confirm that I haven't ever bought any smoke fluid from Chris ever...so it wasnt him... )

Has anyone tried those Antari smoke machines that you fill with Ice cubes to get the low fog effect. I'd like to try one, but I'm worried that some of the low smoke could get "wafted" up to a venues smoke sensors...