Hello, I was wandering if anybody can give a straight answer to this question about PAT testing as it seems to be an area of confusion:
Do you have to be qualified/certified to carry out PAT tests on your own PA equipment?
I have received many different answers. Most people say you have to be "competent" but do not require any official certification. I have studied parts of BS7671 (16th Edition) and have undertaken a Electrical Engineering HND at University (and before that I was sponsored through my work to take the City and Guilds course in Electrical Engineering). So from a legal point of view, does this class me as "competent"?
Can anybody help clear this up once and for all with a straight yes or no?
Thanks
Paul
Full Version: PAT Testing Question
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Yes.
I do PAT and have done none of what you mention, but I'am a competent person, because I quailfied as an electronics engineer. Haveing said that I believe there are some changes comeing later in the year.
There are local college courses, which allow you to test "your companies kit" or IEE run a course which means you can test anybodies kit.
I do PAT and have done none of what you mention, but I'am a competent person, because I quailfied as an electronics engineer. Haveing said that I believe there are some changes comeing later in the year.
There are local college courses, which allow you to test "your companies kit" or IEE run a course which means you can test anybodies kit.
Welcome to the forum Paul ! 
In My Own Opinion,
If you have attended a certificated course that contains electrical safety that:
Clearly identifies the risks of damaged cabling and equipment.
Identifies how to calculate extention lead Amperage v's cable wire diameter v's length
The correct way to wire a plug.
How to calculate fuse ratings.
How to actually use PAT testing equipment
How to classify equipment as class 1 or 2
Then you would be competent.
But as yet there is only a recommendation that it is done by a "competent person".
If you feel confident you can buy a PAT tester from about £260 + £50 a yr calibration
Comes complete with how to video lables and certificates.
My Insurace company states clearly "PAT testing must be carried out by a qualified electrcian"
So first off check your insurance policy
My 2p worth
Jimbo
If you have attended a certificated course that contains electrical safety that:
Clearly identifies the risks of damaged cabling and equipment.
Identifies how to calculate extention lead Amperage v's cable wire diameter v's length
The correct way to wire a plug.
How to calculate fuse ratings.
How to actually use PAT testing equipment
How to classify equipment as class 1 or 2
Then you would be competent.
But as yet there is only a recommendation that it is done by a "competent person".
If you feel confident you can buy a PAT tester from about £260 + £50 a yr calibration
Comes complete with how to video lables and certificates.
My Insurace company states clearly "PAT testing must be carried out by a qualified electrcian"
So first off check your insurance policy
My 2p worth
Jimbo
I believe you would be a competent person, however - and I know this is a slight bone of contention - why would you want to?
I know that after the initial outlay of £300ish you can then PAT anything you want - BUT if you PATed something which then caused a fire, you have no comeback whatsoever on anyone.
I always get my gear PATed every year by a local DJ Supplier company, that way if anything ever goes wrong and the Insurance company try and wiggle out of it (like they do) I have a third party I can possibly hold accountable...
I know that PAT is just like an MOT, only meaning that the equipment is OK on that exact day, and even an hour later means
, but I personally like the peace of mind that comes from knowing there will be no comeback at all on me....
Just my opinion though, and yes the last bill was about £150ish....
I know that after the initial outlay of £300ish you can then PAT anything you want - BUT if you PATed something which then caused a fire, you have no comeback whatsoever on anyone.
I always get my gear PATed every year by a local DJ Supplier company, that way if anything ever goes wrong and the Insurance company try and wiggle out of it (like they do) I have a third party I can possibly hold accountable...
I know that PAT is just like an MOT, only meaning that the equipment is OK on that exact day, and even an hour later means
, but I personally like the peace of mind that comes from knowing there will be no comeback at all on me....Just my opinion though, and yes the last bill was about £150ish....
I went on a two day PAT course run by city & guilds in December. I have taken the two exams, both management and actual testing and am awaiting the results ( which are actually due this week!).
You are all correct in your assumptions that any competent person can do the checks, but the management of the records should be done by a qualified person as there are quite a few little loops in the regulations that many people forget about.
You are all correct in your assumptions that any competent person can do the checks, but the management of the records should be done by a qualified person as there are quite a few little loops in the regulations that many people forget about.
Until a regular venue of mine started (well, were persuaded into) offering to PAT test my gear for me annually, I looked at renting a PAT tester, to save myself the £3 per item charges for getting someone else to plug in a plug, press a button, look at a green light, write on a sticker, and stick the sticker onto appliance.
A quick surf on the internet today shows PAT testers can be rented for £6 per day (min rent period appears to be 5 days though), the stickers can be bought at about 30p per sticker (some sort of "professional" loading on that price I think!), and you could knock up a table/form in Word to record your test results on. So, £30 Tester rent, 20 stickers for £6, and you could PAT test your gear... in theory...
HOWEVER!!! if your insurance docs say that your PAT testing must be carried out by a qualified electrician... then obviously, you need to honour that requirement.
A quick surf on the internet today shows PAT testers can be rented for £6 per day (min rent period appears to be 5 days though), the stickers can be bought at about 30p per sticker (some sort of "professional" loading on that price I think!), and you could knock up a table/form in Word to record your test results on. So, £30 Tester rent, 20 stickers for £6, and you could PAT test your gear... in theory...
HOWEVER!!! if your insurance docs say that your PAT testing must be carried out by a qualified electrician... then obviously, you need to honour that requirement.
I agree with Tonsk - the one problem I have is that some years
there is a considerable turn-over of equipment. I got most of
my kit independently PAT tested in November 2004 but since then
I've replaced an Amp, bought a new power distributor etc.
It's like an MOT except you keep buying new cars and getting
rid of old ones etc.
It seems clear from the HSE that even new equipment needs
to be PAT tested
there is a considerable turn-over of equipment. I got most of
my kit independently PAT tested in November 2004 but since then
I've replaced an Amp, bought a new power distributor etc.
It's like an MOT except you keep buying new cars and getting
rid of old ones etc.
It seems clear from the HSE that even new equipment needs
to be PAT tested
Well thank you all of you for your replies. But again I get differing answers! LOL! I think that there is still much confusion in many areas, for example I was also told that brand new equipment carying a CE sticker on the chassis (or in the documentation if it is acompanied by a serial number identical to that on the chassis of the appliance) does not have to be tested during the manufacturers 12 month warranty.
The reason that I ask this is that I have so much equipment, if I were to have every amp, deck, power cable and lighting head etc tested, it would cost me several hundred pounds. I own a 20K system from Opus Audio Developments and a sizeable lightshow, to do outdoor festivals, roadshows, dance music events etc, so there is an immense amount of equipment involved. Testing it myself is the only way! And another thing, what do I do when the manufacturers tell you not to flash test equipment as it may damage sensitive parts!
Its a minefield!
The reason that I ask this is that I have so much equipment, if I were to have every amp, deck, power cable and lighting head etc tested, it would cost me several hundred pounds. I own a 20K system from Opus Audio Developments and a sizeable lightshow, to do outdoor festivals, roadshows, dance music events etc, so there is an immense amount of equipment involved. Testing it myself is the only way! And another thing, what do I do when the manufacturers tell you not to flash test equipment as it may damage sensitive parts!
Its a minefield!
I don't know who gave you the information on what the 'CE' label represents, but they've got mixed up somewhere along the way.
The CE Label or 'CE' Mark as it is sometimes refered to, indicates that the appliance complies with the laws on Electromagnet Radiation. In other words, walking past the appliance wearing a pacemaker is not going to cause the pacemaker to become erratic and stop working, or driving past an office block with several hundred electrical items is not going to cause the Cars' ABS to cease working etc etc.
'CE' means that the appliance does not radiate enough interference to affect the working parameters, or otherwise interefere with another appliance in close proximity.
Ever since 1999, all electrical equipment manufactured or imported into the UK has to legally bear this symbol to indicate that the manufacturer has designed the device to work within CE guidelines. CE Compliance is what the manufacturers have to comply with, and is nothing to do with PAT testing, which checks the electrical safety, earth bond and isolation of the electrical appliance.
You do need to have each item of electrical equipment tested annually, and have a certificate of test for each device.
Given your circumstances, it would be in your interest, financially, to take one of the courses on PAT testing, buy a machine and test your own.
The CE Label or 'CE' Mark as it is sometimes refered to, indicates that the appliance complies with the laws on Electromagnet Radiation. In other words, walking past the appliance wearing a pacemaker is not going to cause the pacemaker to become erratic and stop working, or driving past an office block with several hundred electrical items is not going to cause the Cars' ABS to cease working etc etc.
'CE' means that the appliance does not radiate enough interference to affect the working parameters, or otherwise interefere with another appliance in close proximity.
Ever since 1999, all electrical equipment manufactured or imported into the UK has to legally bear this symbol to indicate that the manufacturer has designed the device to work within CE guidelines. CE Compliance is what the manufacturers have to comply with, and is nothing to do with PAT testing, which checks the electrical safety, earth bond and isolation of the electrical appliance.
You do need to have each item of electrical equipment tested annually, and have a certificate of test for each device.
Given your circumstances, it would be in your interest, financially, to take one of the courses on PAT testing, buy a machine and test your own.
CE means so much more than Radiating Energy.
It even goes as far as to dictating the manufacturers name etc is clearly marked on the appliances.
Having worked as an electronics engineer with a BS conformed company, we had to go to great lengths to comform to both BS (british standards) and CE Marking.
There are many different aspects to CE Marking, however for generic DJ equipement, you should direct your self to:
COUNCIL DIRECTIVE 73/23/EEC of 19 February 1973 on the harmonization of the laws of Member States relating to Electrical Equipment designed for use within certain voltage limits.
It even goes as far as to dictating the manufacturers name etc is clearly marked on the appliances.
Having worked as an electronics engineer with a BS conformed company, we had to go to great lengths to comform to both BS (british standards) and CE Marking.
There are many different aspects to CE Marking, however for generic DJ equipement, you should direct your self to:
COUNCIL DIRECTIVE 73/23/EEC of 19 February 1973 on the harmonization of the laws of Member States relating to Electrical Equipment designed for use within certain voltage limits.
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1. Background The Low Voltage Directive (LVD) was introduced at a time when directives contained detailed technical annexes which were intended to supersede national laws. The LVD set out the essential protection requirements, with the relevant technical details being defined by standards-making organizations. This subsequently paved the way for what were to be known as the New Approach Directives. 2. Scope 2.1 The "Electrical Equipment" means any equipment designed for use with a voltage rating of between 50 and 1000 V for alternating current (A.C.) and between 75 and 1500 V for direct current (D.C.). Therefore, this Directive is called often "Low Voltage Directive" which applies to the vast majority of electrical equipment in everyday use. The Electrical Equipment may be placed on the market only if it does not endanger the safety of persons, domestic animals or property. There are 11 principal elements of the safety objectives listed in Annex I. 2.2 The Low Voltage Directive was the first directive to reference standards, and equipment which complies with harmonised safety standards drawn up by common agreement is deemed to comply. Where harmonised standards are not available, international standards which have been agreed to may be used. 2.3 The Low Voltage Directive has been in existence for over twenty years and, in conjunction with the CE Marking Directive 93/68/EEC which amended it as and from 1st January 1995, note should be taken of some of its main features. (a) The Low Voltage Directive is not designed to impose safety standards. Its primary purpose is to ensure free trade through the removal of technical barriers. (b) Conformity with standards is not compulsory, but it can be used as one means to demonstrate compliance with the safety principles enshrined in the directive. © The Low Voltage Directive covers other aspects of safety, including mechanical aspects. (d) There are some items that are excluded from the Low Voltage Directives and those are listed in Annex II of the directive. 3. Demonstrating Conformity 3.1 From a manufacturer's perspective a key element of the directive is to be found in article 10, which relates to proof of conformity. The Low Voltage Directive defines three means whereby such conformity can be demonstrated; manufacturers declaration, certificates and notified body marks. 3.2 While the manufacturer's declaration is in itself sufficient to provide an "a priori" presumption of conformity of the equipment to the directive (the equipment is deemed to comply unless the importing country can prove otherwise), he must be entirely satisfied that he is correct in this regard. 3.3 Today, when manufacturers are faced with highly competitive markets, shortening product life cycles and continuing economic pressures, they are turning to independent certification agencies to provide the confidence and market advantage that is vital to their business needs. The certification agencies assist by issuing certificates in a recognized format, or by authorizing the use of a notified certification mark. These mechanisms for certification do not exist in isolation, as reciprocal recognition arrangements are in place between National Certification Bodies at a number of levels. 3.4 The IECEE scheme for the mutual recognition of test reports, and the CENELEC Certification Agreement (CCA) are implemented by many certification agencies. 3.5 On the 1st January 1995, the Amending CE Marking Directive 93/68/EEC came into force. Its purpose, as far as the LVD is concerned, is to modify the conformity assessment and marking provisions so that the LVD can be fully integrated into the new approach/global approach philosophy. (See Articles 13-15 of 93/68/EEC). From the 1st January 1995 until 31st December 1996 a transitional arrangement applies in that products may be placed on the market if they comply with the marking requirements in force before 1st January 1995. Alternatively, manufacturers may follow the provisions of the Amending Directive and apply the CE Marking, making sure that it is clearly stated that the Marking is evidence of compliance under the LVD. This will permit free circulation, avoiding difficulties with national administrations. From 1st January 1997, application of the CE Marking will indicate that the equipment complies with the requirements of all relevant directives. ANNEX I 11 PRINCIPAL ELEMENTS OF THE SAFETY OBJECTIVES 1. General conditions a) The essential characteristics, the recognition and observance of which will ensure that electrical equipment will be used safely and in applications for which it was made, shall be marked on the equipment, or, if this is not possible, on an accompanying notice. b) The manufacturers or brand name or trade mark should be clearly printed on the electrical equipment or, where that is not possible, on the packaging. c) The electrical equipment, together with its component parts should be made in such a way as to ensure that it can be safely and properly assembled and connected. d) The electrical equipment should be so designed and manufactured as to ensure that protection against the hazards set out in points 2 and 3 of this Annex is assured providing that the equipment is used in applications for which it was made and is adequately maintained. 2. Protection against hazards arising from the electrical equipment Measures of a technical nature should be prescribed in accordance with point 1, in order to ensure: a) that persons and domestic animals are adequately protected against danger of physical injury or other harm which might be caused by electrical contact direct or indirect; b) that temperatures, arcs or radiation which would cause a danger, are not produced; c) that persons, domestic animals and property are adequately protected against non-electrical dangers caused by the electrical equipment which are revealed by experience; d) that the insulation must be suitable for foreseeable conditions. 3. Protection against hazards which may be caused by external influences on the electrical equipment Technical measures are to be laid down in accordance with point 1, in order to ensure: a) that the electrical equipment meets the expected mechanical requirements in such a way that persons, domestic animals and property are not endangered; b) that the electrical equipment shall be resistant to non-mechanical influences in expected environmental conditions, in such a way that persons, domestic animals and property are not endangered; c) that the electrical equipment shall not endanger persons, domestic animals and property in foreseeable conditions of overload. ANNEX II EQUIPMENT AND PHENOMENA OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THE DIRECTIVE Electrical equipment for use in an explosive atmosphere Electrical equipment for radiology and medical purposes Electrical parts for goods and passenger lifts Electricity meters Plugs and socket outlets for domestic use Electric fence controllers Radio-electrical interference Specialized electrical equipment, for use on ships, aircraft or railways, which complies with the safety provisions drawn up by international bodies in which the Member States participate. |
For some appliances further CE Directives will apply, for such items including Computer systems and Radio Transmitters for microphones, etc.
As a rule the CE Mark simply identifies the product it is attached to, has conformed to at least ONE CE Directive.
Like a childs stuffed toy for example.
The above directive does not apply to this, however other directives do.
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| Well thank you all of you for your replies. But again I get differing answers! |
Well, I think this is due to the fact that the Rules are so complex that they are open to interpretation, so every tom, dick and harry will have their own view on it.
This is the general consensus of the tutors on an electrical safety course I attended.
If I were you, I would buy the kit, train up, do your kit, and offer the service to others as an extra earner
Courses start at £145, I am looking at one in Bristol at the moment, but want to make sure taht I do not need to do a refresher every 12 months before I sign up, otherwise it wouldn't be worth it.
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