Here an extract of an email I've just receiced and my reply:

QUOTE

I have just had a visit from a man from the Public Performance Music Partnership LTD (www.antimusicpiracy.co.uk) 'to cut a long story short' I got away with it and will not get a fine but he has now told me that the CDS album I have made are illegal. I was under the impression that if I owned the original I could make one copy, I asked him this and he said no. You are more up to date with this stuff or if you can do a posting on CIX to try and find out more info, I now need to find the law that says one way or the other??? I knew that were hotting up on things but this has dropped me in it as I have 30 albums which I have made and there's no way I'm going to start carrying all the CDs again.

QUOTE

Sorry it's true in the UK, even if you own the original. Why the hell do you think I push to get more members in the TVDJA. I want to push the music industry, to totally revamp it's rules, and hopefully, get a license for member DJs to 1) Make a back up copy, 2) be allowed to make MP3's for those on computers. But until we get out of the tens in to the thousands, fat chance. I'm going to post this on a DJ forum, I won't say who you are, but it might start the ball rolling. If you object, let me know and i'll remove it.

Your views please

Hi Mikeee
Was this a visit by officialdom during a public performance ie not a family party
I must say it is most frustrating when legislation does not keep up with the technology we now have and work with.
I agree the sooner some form of licensing for bona fide DJ's is introduced the better
Back up copies of Cds does not seem unreasonable when you have the original but I know that any copying will be deemed breach of copyright For private or public use.
MP3's are another problem area but they should be treated the same as a back up.
Most frustrating and well worth lobbying for even as individuals.
Obviously MP3 downloads are are a different thing again.

Mikeee, do you think the law covers white label records?

Do you think that the nightclubs are going to fall under this area?

Regards

DD

Hi
For info on PRS & MCPS visit their site at
http://www.prs.co.uk/
There is a lot of info on their sites
They are approachable and you can ring them to get the latest view and advice.
They survey music played by Djs around the country and I think this is to establish what is being played to be able to calculate royalties to artists and siongwritters.
It is not uknown for them to sit by a DJ during a public performace and write down every track you play.
This information helps them work out an average for royalties due.
The last time I spoke to them a couple of years ago now they were more interested in piracy mass copying .
Private family parties did not seem to interest them
80 % of my work is weddings.
When pressed about back up Cds they said it was not legal but seemed sympathetic.
They turned up at a hotel I was giging in one night to do a survey.
We had two weddings running in seperate rooms and I must admit it was very unnerving and a scramble in the CD box.
They never came into either DJ but they sat in the restaurant with the resident pianist all night
They wrote down everything he played and looked at his his music pad and quized him about photocopies of music!
All his stuff was original.
The usage of music we have bought and paid royalties on seems fair game to me and could easily be licensed at an affordable cost to bona fide DJs. After all we are promoting the artist song writters at our functions. I believe we should lobby our MPs with some coordinated letter that Mikeee could formulate in particular with regard to Laptop MP3 use
Most of my collection is now laptop
Easy to find tracks for requests etc etc...

bump

All this makes me laugh a few years ago the music industry were completely pulling our pants down with regard to the cost of CD's, now the shoe is on the other foot and they're crapping themselves beacuse of P2P and file sharing popularity. The record company bosses cant afford to shove another line of charlie up there noses because ppl are downloading tunes for free instead of buying them and lining their greedy pockets.

Anyone know the breakdown of what goes where when a CD Single or Album is bought ?

Here Goes

CNN source on cost of £11.61 CD

Cost of Distribution and shipping £2.29
Marketing & Promotion £1.47
Royalties Artist & Songwriter £1.36
Signing Act producing record £0.74
Co-Op Advertising Discount to dealers £0.58
Pressing Album & Booklet Print £0.51
Profit to label £0.40

RETAIL MARKUP……………………..................£4.26 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not only are they getting royalties on the CD we have purchased but also from the licensed venue that hold the PRS certificate where we perform
That is each and every premises across the country.

True but is'nt it annoying when we complain about fat cats and record companies to find that the RETAILER is the one who is making most money!!

you pay your money or take your chance... I think it is up to you what you do but copying cds for public performance is, at the end of the day, illegal. I dont believe that the price of cds is above our reach and if you have been dj-ing for many years, you should have a substantial collection and not really need to copy them. Yes on occasion I have had to replace because of damage or walkabout, but at the end of the day, if you are charging a respectable fee then who can moan about 15 quid for an up to date - or lets face it guys, you can buy so many retro cds from 3.99 these days. Old cds do perish but think how much use you get out of the life of a cd and after 13 years I really havent had to replace many. Family parties are still public performances. I go back to a comment I made a while ago - where do we draw the line - we bemoan "cowboys" for not PAT testing but think we are above that when it comes to copying. Taking care of your cd collection in the first place should eliminate the need to "back them up" - I personally know that I can always replace my equipment should the worse happen but my cd collection is extremely precious to me - and I make sure I protect them above all else. The law is the law no matter how much we dont like it.

QUOTE

who can moan about 15 quid

I can and I will, your right I do think it is best to stick to original CD's as it is a risk, but looking at spins post £4.26 retail markup places like HMV and Virgin as far as I can see are pulling our plonkers. You would think that when you bought from them online they're price would reduce maybe they should shut all their shops to cut down on overheads and sell soley online then pass on the saving to us.


Hang on I can see a pig out the window.........and its flying

everyones out to make a profit --- and why not? I wont moan about the price of a cd - I would rather moan about the 85% tax I am ripped off by the government for a packet of fags!!! If we begrudge paying a mark up on cds then the buck wont stop there.... Im sure nobody moans about chris making a profit out of his shop... yes he is supplying quality gear at discounted prices but, HE IS STILL MAKING A PROFIT!! Good luck to him ! How many of you can honestly say, hand on heart, that you declare ALL your earning from this business - there is a profit and a tax on everything these days but it is not enough to justify breaking the law because we, as the customer, feel the profit margin is too much for our liking.
(Chris I am not being at all disrespectful to you here - just want to make the point that we are all making a profit at the end of the day or why on earth would any of us be in business - you are to be congratulated because you choose to take a lower profit margin than other suppliers)

From reading Chris's site (Correct me if im wrong !) he only trades via mail order which is presumably why he can pass on a better saving than his competitors. One of the points I made in my last post was if these people cut their overheads and traded via mail order or online they could pass a saving on to us.

...in an ideal world!

Hi Kaz
I agree with your comments to a degree but that still does not give us the oportunity to embrace new MP3 formats and players.
CDs are vunerable to damage scratches etc and there is the weight factor of carrying them around and if originals they can get stolen no matter how careful you are.
MP3 3 's on a laptop take up little or no space and have the big advantage that you still have originals to fall back on if the lap top were to be stolen. Not to mention the quick response you can make to requests. Finding tracks on MP3 software takes seconds as oposed to finding CD tracks.
We should not be forced into ignoring the latest technology because of legislators slow to react and vested interests of others.
Bit serious that

I agree petee, but legislation will hopefully one day catch up !
Also, another little point, how many of you drink beer - do you know the mark up on your pint? Clothes, shoes, food etc etc etc Hey, but lets lighten up! I love my job and thank all the artists who have recorded classic tunes over the years which at the end of the day I NEED for my business.

Me again
Just seen your last post re profit
If record companies set up a legit download service and offer CDs via the net they could take some of the retail shop s profit and would find their sales would increase as people would be more inclined to buy direct. Provided it was priced right!!!!
Of course others may prefer to use totally free downloads but I suspect most DJ's would prefer to run legit downloads instead of the current P2P systems.
Don't get me wrong here I am not having a go at anyone who chooses to do that.
We have all down loaded the odd hard to find track at some time

Right again petee! I am sure noone thinks we are "having a go" - remember forums are to express our own opinions - and we wont all agree all of the time (wouldnt it be boring if we did)!

Cor cannot keep up with these posts
Beer oh yes please but who wants to brew their own.

We want it now gimme gimme gimme

ah, home brew!!!

QUOTE

From reading Chris's site (Correct me if im wrong !) he only trades via mail order which is presumably why he can pass on a better saving than his competitors

Correct! - storage premises come far cheaper then retail ones . 95% of my business is done online, and speaking from experience and having tried both, for the majority of businesses I see internet trading as the way forward, at least for any goods suppliers. And this appears to be the current government initiative also .

QUOTE

I made in my last post was if these people cut their overheads and traded via mail order or online they could pass a saving on to us.

This is true in the majority of cases, however there are the online dealers who want the best of both worlds - maximum profit and mail order, most now run mail order alongside their retail business, which means their overheads are likely to stay the same.

Believe it or not, there are also some manufacturers who do not like their distributors selling at a discount, or advertising a discount price on the internet. This is why some of my deals are restricted to a members only section of the forum, or I request you to "Email me for the best price" . There are even some who refuse to trade with mail order based companies at all . I think that these victorian attitudes are going to change over the next few years if they want to remain successful, especially in light of so much far eastern competition, and the massive use of the internet

I believe that CD Manufacturers, to some extent fall into the above category!. Remember the Fiasco of a certain supermarket chain being sued for selling designer labels at U.S prices? - yes price fixing is still alive and well, and appearing at a UK store near you today!.

Luckily being independant I get to call the shots with the companies that I distribute for, at least to some extent! luckily the majority of them have no problems with me selling slightly below retail - they get paid just the same either way . This also means that I can offer unbiased advice on any products since I am not on commission, nor tied to any one manufacturer!.

Hi ya chris,,, I am looking for a moving display (new or 2nd hand) -have you got any?

QUOTE (kazzachi @ May 16 2003, 01:32 PM)

Hi ya chris,,, I am looking for a moving display (new or 2nd hand) -have you got any?

Hi,

New only at the moment. Check out my "May Specials" page on this forum for current prices.

cheers chris... as soon as my credit card clears (end of month) will get in an order.... got any specs you could sendme?

Why do you want his specs when you have perfectly good ones in your avatar............ he he heh

how about this one re copied CD's, I prefer to use CD's even when working in a club enviroment. What do we do about tracks not available on CD.

I burn from vinyl to CD, when & if the track is issued on CD I buy it

QUOTE

From reading Chris's site (Correct me if im wrong !) he only trades via mail order which is presumably why he can pass on a better saving than his competitors

Hi Chris/Kaz
Just to confirm your mail order service is second 2 none
I have just ordered an item from Chris on Wed which was delivered on time this morning & intact at a very good price
So anyone on the boards can be confident of a quick personal service
Thanks Chris
Mines a pint and Kaz said something about beer ealier so she can pay He He He

Seemed to have gone off Mikeee's topic here

PRS and copied Cds

How can you prove any visting officials that MP3's you have legaly bought and paid to download from an official resellers site, is yours to burn to CD or play through your computer system at a gig?.

You can't................ but conversely they can't prove they are illegal copies.

As we said before in another thread, they would need a warrant and to seize your laptop / desktop and all the Cd's and vinyl in your posession and at home to compare the two.

A warrant is not issued on a whim, there has to be sufficient proof of serious offences taking places. If you put your hands up and give them permission to take your laptop this is what they will pressure for, if you don't they are on a no win situation.

QUOTE

A warrant is not issued on a whim, there has to be sufficient proof of serious offences taking places. If you put your hands up and give them permission to take your laptop this is what they will pressure for, if you don't they are on a no win situation.

Exactly, it takes an indepth investigation of many weeks in order to gain enough evidence to prosecute the market trader / computer fair dealer who sells 100's of copies of illegal material every day, in order to get a warrant.

However perhaps people should be a little more cautious as to what they admit to in public places such as this forum, post's such as "I'll just go and download this......." could be just the break "They" need.

An old adage springs to mind

"IN the first place always look after Number 1"

Careless talk costs livelehoods!

Guys, A quick update, I haven't read throu all the posts, I'll do that later.
My friend has just rung me, the gentleman that payed him a visit is employed by three companies, to check on the illegal use of CD's. My friend has spoken to PRS, PPL, MCPS and the BPI, to cut a very long story short. Duplicating a CD you have purchased (1 x copy only), technical is illegal, but you are unlikely to get done, now the fact you have made an MP3, doesn't appear to matter. IT IS GREY AREA, that nobody wants to enter at the moment. Now the fun bit if you use software to play back an MP3, PCDJ was mentioned that is illegal.
This gentleman, can enter premises and if turned away can come back with the police, but by all accounts he can only warn and report you. The confiscation of equipment is also a grey area. There should be more details next week. My friend has turned around and said "so take me to court".

And this is the short version

Nice to know you're on the case 'Super Sleuth Mikeee' keep us informed.

These people need to get down to some of there local markets and have a good look around, I was at a market a few weeks ago and about 5 stalls had a massive selection of piracy cd`s DVD`s etc.. these are the people they need to target more as these people are selling in mass bulk

QUOTE

These people need to get down to some of there local markets and have a good look around

Although nothing can condone breaking the law, this is a very good point, and something that I have mentioned on another earlier thread. Even locally, I know of several market traders who openly sell copies of copyright material, not just music, but Software, Games, DVD's - you name it, it's openly being flouted around virtually every market, car boot sale, and computer fair in the UK.

There are also several UK forums who sell complete Mastermix, DMC and Karaoke compilations for a hundreth of its true value (Don't email me, I won't tell you!), I have also been approached by some of these dealers who wish to advertise on here. Obviously the answer was no, but lets face it, selling pirated material is a growing industry.

It's also a criminal offence to sell, buy or be in possession of such articles, but judging by the queue around one of the stallholders at the local Tuesday market, then there are a hell of a lot of criminals out there!.

Some of Mikeee's points raise questions. If these people are able to obtain police escort within hours of a refused access visit then they are operating in some government capacity. In order to gain a warrant (and police escort to enforce) then they usually have to apply to the local magistrate, Swear an oath, and submit evidence to justify a reason. This seems like a hell of a lot of trouble to go to, just (in the case of Mikeee's colleague) to issue a warning and perhaps submit a report.

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ May 17 2003, 12:47 AM)

If these people are able to obtain police escort within hours of a refused access

by that time the gigs over and your long gone

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ May 17 2003, 12:47 AM)

Some of Mikeee's points raise questions. If these people are able to obtain police escort within hours of a refused access visit then they are operating in some government capacity. ........ ..... This seems like a hell of a lot of trouble to go to, just (in the case of Mikeee's colleague) to issue a warning and perhaps submit a report.

Mikeee, in relation to this, have you heard anything on the grapevine about amendment changes to be made in November, (Queen's speech) in conjunction with DTI proposals and amendments to existing acts - in regard to performers or DJ's having to pay either performance royalties or obtain a license to perform?
Fines imposed to the sum of £ 50,000 - minimum, at 'public events'?

If you havn't heard anything - please could you dig deep on this one - it may really upset the 'apple cart' for all of us.

DD

QUOTE

If you havn't heard anything - please could you dig deep on this one - it may really upset the 'apple cart' for all of us.

Yes, I can see that very soon the entertainment at family gathering's will consist of 3 old fella's sitting around an open fire singing "Roll Out the Barrel", and "Knees up mother brown" for the fourth time. Until of course, "They" introduce a license for that as well - pretty soon - farting in public will become an offence under the noise abatement order

But then of course the rulers making the rules would all prefer us, to be tucked up in bed by 8pm watching party political broadcasts and God help anybody who Dares to enjoy themselves!.

D.J's will be an illicit team of underground entertainers charging £2000 an hour in view of the Risks involved. Music will be limited to political songs only such as "My Way" and "Things can only get better".

You may laugh, but give it a few years!.

QUOTE

I would rather moan about the 85% tax I am ripped off by the government for a packet of fags!!!

Hmm, this is my personal opinion, and from a non smoker, but what does the price of fags have to do with the expense of running a business? unless you've found a way of running them through your books. I think that the point made earlier was that keeping up to date with new release singles is expensive, catching up with older titles for those new to the industry can cost far more than the gear itself.

Interesting to see that the suppliers of material proclaiming to be "Run by D.J's for D.J's" a' la Mastermix and co, offer some of the most expensive compilations around!, and I don't see much in the way of discount for large quantity purchases .

As D.J's we are promoting the music industry along with the latest Kylie Track!, surely that qualifies us for some discount, and the odd freebie?.Yet we have to shop at HMV and pay the same prices as some 12 year old kid buying the latest Gareth Gates cheese!.

If you want to whinge about something whinge about the fact that you are paying far more for the same CD in the UK, than your colleagues are in the US, or the rest of Europe!.

Hi all



Just a quickie, I was the man behind Mike doing the first post. The law is not clean cut, I have spent 4 hours on the phone today talking to people like the PPL, MCPS, BBI etc and even they are not sure if it’s legal to make copies of CDs you own.

I am now waiting to hear back from these people and will keep Mike up to date on the out come, when I know, you will know.

But the way it stands at the moment even the industry doesn’t know….watch this space

Swirl, thats an interesting name, I didn't know that your middle name was Shirley

DD, sorry I missed the Queens speech, hadn't realised there was something else in the pipeline. Had a chat with "swirl" on the phone, about pushing for a reasonable priced license for DJ's so that they can make ONE copy of an original (provided you own it). License to perform, well it will have only taken 8 years. When agency licensing was deregulated, the second part, which wasn't introduced, was to license the entertainer (band, disco, magician, comedian and karaoke (LOL)), this would then remove the element of the "entertainer" who insists on Cash Only and No Paperwork, leaving the market place open to those deemed as "professionals". there will still be loop holes like the guy with his Dansette " i'm only doing it for a family friend", but it should remove at least 80% of these type caracters.
I will have a sniff around. The last time I made these enquires (about 4 years ago) I got knowhere, so I went to my local MP, Who wrote to the DTI, I had a reply saying it wasn't them, but the dept. for culture, media etc. There reply (Mr Chris Smith) was awear of it, but at that time there were no plans to introduce it - well it looks like there are now.

My concern here is, Musicians have the MU, cabaret, actors etc have Equity, DJ's have sod all, and with the best will in the world the TVDJA have about 100 members - out of how many thousand?????? We don't have any CLOUT.

But i will persivere, or perish.

Hi Mikeee
Maybe we should seek to affiliate to the MU
Perhaps a proforma letter designed to post on here then board members can fill it in and send onto their respective MPs
We must watch we do not become part of the 'Mother State' and become over regulated which very often happens if people companies Chancilors smell some sort of licensing fees across the country.
Mp3's from originals are a definate must with all the latest software.
I wonder how many bands and singers have their midi files backing tracks checked.
Thats me done had my say
Keep up the good work Mikeee
Must buy you a pint when I se e you at Plazza

Mikeee - I think if we look fixedly with eyes wide open - the answer is right in front of us!!!

OK, lets look at my painted picture.... We share experiences, ideas, stories and discuss and chat on the forum.
Chris sets good ground rules, and we all post topics and reply.
So we all share a common interest in the profession we 'love'. :)

Suggestion.....
So why doesn't your association pull resources and work alongside this forum?
Why don't you form affiliation ties with DjsUnited, maybe even apply for grant money from the European Social Fund because you would, in effect, be creating 'work' from the required resources. However, there possibly could be a conflict problem as your association accepts subscription and this forum is free to join... but the ESF would help cover that if you were to offer free membership to get numbers on board quickly.
I'm not dreaming and would do it myself but guess you are already in a position to do something radical for DJs!

Now I don't know a lot about your TVDJA, but I also guess there are good points that would compliment other 'affiliations' who I believe from telephone chats have been or are already 'on board' with you?
So can't DjsUnited be treated the same? What do you want from DJsUnited?

You may feel that there is nothing to gain out of working together (TVDJA and DjsUnited) but I reckon the only way to move forwrd with all these apparent Acts and leglislation changes is to combine 'forces' and build on what you and Chris has already achieved. Amalgamating ideas and working together for the sake of the profession could really do wonders, could it not?

OK, ask yourself what do we need to make 'something' really work for DJs?

1) DJ network online community - we have that.
2) Legal clarification on DJ related issues, such as agency or copyright rules - need a little more help here
3) Technical advice and 'assistance' - we already cover this on the forum and could easily expand with more help

HOLD ON!

Already, bigger and longer established unions already provide above and exist that one could only dream of being allowed to join, however, I'm going to create a fictional example of a DJ union, calling it "DJ Union" as we have nothing representing DJs on a true national scale like the Musicians Union.

Right, a Mobile DJ could prove to 'DJ Union' that he or she has Public Liability, Portable Appliance Test and even accounts as he is honest and nothing to fear from Mr TAX man.
Membership certification issued - recognised by the issuing body (DJ Union) - the mobile DJ is registered DJ which is an important point to come back to.
The admin of registration could require a small one off registration fee to cover the 'membership secretary' (say £5.00 per application) and annual subscription which lists the members service and contact details on a DJ Union website - great for potential gig enquiries from as little as £10.00 - £15.00 as a minimum annual fee only adding the additional hire fees to cover the networking nights or what you told me were 'dj show nights' at venues. Note: Fees may need adjusting year on year. Other/future benefits of membership in due course...target numbers would need to grow first.

Now, the substantial money generated from subscription could easily cover the cost of hosting a nicely advertised website! Excellent membership benefit in itself.

I guess that the third party sites would want a piece of the action once the site was starting to get popular!
If there is anything genuine to be given or passed on to the DJ Members then the more DJs on board would undoubtedly guarantee discount on PLI and other potential benefits for sure, however people are not stupid and need to see that they are indeed receiving a benefit of membership to an organisation that has feet on floor vision.

Note: I can not understand why someone would want to join and pay half the amount of what the long established organisations charge as a membership fee.... for far, far less benefit???

For other bigger ideas to be considered, you have to have physical numbers on books in black and white and not 'pie in the sky' ideas to make such an idea as 'DJ Union' work!

When you multiply 600 - 1000 members all contributing up to £15 in the first year plus registration, and you start to spread the 'DJ Union' name to other DJs.....it's not difficult to work out the scope!

Looking at the stats from Chris recently, I also reckon a 'DJ Union' could turn a few heads in various other places of DJ diversity too! Why think small?

Essentially, a 'DJ Union' could propose questions to the likes of the Bigger Fish in the big Music River, and speak with a little clout because it is representing the members......as simple as that.

If bigger revenue is what the 'DJ Union' really needs, then it could, for example, introduce a quarterly members magazine financed from advert payments a little below the industry standard rates as an incentive.
Any surplus monies raised could then go towards bettering the name of the profession by encouraging the top venues and suppliers that booking a 'DJ Union' member is beneficial over that of an unregistered person.

Sooner or later, 'DJ Union' could negotiate fair discounts on behalf of the members (because of the member numbers) on equipment and other DJ essential needs......but essentially, there would be no loss of focus on the actual member.

Regarding my earlier point, with enough members on board, I see no reason why the certification of members could not be recognised in a greater capacity.
Clients don't call a gas fitter because they are a member of an organisation, they call out of need and of course price.
Only when they find out that the gas fitter has to be registered with an organisation do they realise and learn......educated slowly but surely, but learn none the less that the gas fitter had to jump through a few hoops before paying to get registered....so why can't we adopt the same principal and encourage serious DJs to earn better margins from being registered?

The people required to work behind the scenes of a 'Dj Union' don't need payment or finance to make this work, just commitment and loyalty to the profession and the members.
The bigger the 'DJ Union' got, of course, would require an incentive to the worker but it need not be £££ signs or physical payment either!

Chris has allowed us to discuss similar DJ related topics on other threads that tie into 'a whole'.

Potentially, I see something like your TVDJA organisation and DJsUnited as two thirds of a whole - with DJs filling the obvious gap!

I'll leave it there for now because I could go on and on, but I tend to go 'round the houses' to get to a point!

Last word - a difference can be made if we all work together to make a difference and are not driven by greed, hence the reasonable figures mentioned.

And as for *Mr Branson.....he is a businessman, and gets what he wants! What a backer he would make to such an idea!

QUOTE (Peteee @ May 16 2003, 01:09 PM)

CDs are vunerable to damage scratches etc and there is the weight factor of carrying them around and if originals they can get stolen no matter how careful you are.

CD's are fantastic, you should have tried lugging vinyl around, now they are heavy

[QUOTE=Ian Stewart,May 18 2003, 10:27 AM] [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
CD's are fantastic, you should have tried lugging vinyl around, now they are heavy


I agree CDs are fantastic but they are heavy I have a 180 cd box full of Cds in prosleeves and that is as heavy as my amp!

Why make things difficult when we now have the technology to play and even beat mix MP3's

I'm going to to be careful here, having Pay Per Click links are a good Idea, altough I haven't gone there yet. You couldn't rely on Music you would also end up with equipment links and that would pay truck loads more, but it would then clash with the interests of Chris and this board. As I said, I want to be careful.

The TVDJA has a couple of major problems, othe than not enough members, in the good old days manfuctures would come in and do demos and offer "Specials" but since the RRP went out the window, everybody offers discounts. PLI, companies want to deal direct with individuals not "Groups". A lot of what the association offered, has gone. Now i see the future as being more towards legal services, and representation, which is all well and good, but we are back to members again.
The MU has 44,000 members, there annual membership is £60 and that includes £10M PLI. I spoke to the ins. company and they would offer us the same deal if we had 44,000 members. We have a long hard fight ahead of us.

Mikeee quote

"The MU has 44,000 members, there annual membership is £60 and that includes £10M PLI. I spoke to the ins. company and they would offer us the same deal if we had 44,000 members. We have a long hard fight ahead of us."


This is my point
Maybe we would be better off by trying to seek affiliation to the MU and add to their membership and benefit from their numbers
After all we are performers of a sort and not a million miles away from the many solo artists

What are the entry criteria for the MU exactly?? After all musician covers such a diverse spectrum can we not creep in somehow taking advantage of their membership and PLI and then take it from there.????

QUOTE

can we not creep in somehow taking advantage of their membership and PLI and then take it from there.????

Hmmm, I think they may notice 200+ members creeping in and can you imagine members like Kimmy being subtle and quietly creeping in wihout drawing attention to us?

I think the main problem with regards the MU, is the "Them and us" attitude between Musicians and D.J's. We are all on the same side of the fence, and fighting for the same cause, yet many miles apart

Ok my favourite trick................. Answer your own query.

The MU of Britain has very few criteria apparently as I just went to the website and they have an online application form.

Main points were a sliding scale of fees 'depending on how much you earn from 'MUSIC' per year! (No definition of music given)

Name address phone no. etc.

Please give details of all instruments you play.......(include vocalist/singer)

And thats it!!!!

In which case I can see the KJ's having no problem whatsoever joining as they invariably are singers, and I would have no problem saying i was a vocalist, because without my voice I would'nt be in the music profession.

It also goes on to say if you pay their fees they will indemnify you up to 10 million per year for public performance etc etc

QUOTE

Easier said than done you may think, but look at what you and Chris has actually done

Hmm, All this forum was intended to do, was to give Mobile D.J's a place to chat, and I don't see it changing any laws, rules, or making any major differences in the future.

It is organisations such as the TVDJA which actually give D.J's a voice!.