Sorry, pardon the Pun , but here is a question.

Would any of you be interested in a fully legal - BPI Compliant promo service offering new / pre released MP3's for download in a similar way to the recognised 'Dj in the Mix' service but with material which isn't quite so 'clubby'.

The service would have to be offered as a members only service - just like DJITM, with members having to produce certain checkable criteria to identify themselves as bona-fida working DJ's.

Please post your thoughts on this below and keep it on topic

quite simply Yes,

Would this enable us to listen too part of the track and decide if we want it ?

what quality/bit rate would the tracks be ?

would it be a pay per track or monthly charge ?

what would we need to do to qualify ?

Yes

Whoa! one step at a time . All I can say at this moment in time is that as a result of recent discussion on DJU followed by several questions being asked to various people 'in the know', relevant authorities are being consulted and one member has worked almost night and day to research the legal points and fire off emails , and from what has come back, and the support which has been shown thus far, it *MAY* become a workable opportunity.

However anything which involves legal red tape and dotting the 'i's isn't going to happen overnight, but I will say that it is looking favourable.

But lets take each step at a time.

Yes

Yes please.

Thank you.

Rich

(I was brought up very well )

Yes,

and I would be more than happy to pay per download.

If it was a monthly subsription instead, then it would depend on what the track selection is like. (But I wouldn't want to see a bit rate of less than 192Kbs.)

Yes

please

(i was brought up to not expect but to hope lol)

Yep, I'm in

I will back you in any way possible- just to let you know I think it's a superb idea!

I would be interested in quality downloads at a reasonable price.

Yes, Im interested ...I bet all of the writers/distributors of DJ/laptop software would be interested too.

Yes please

yes

Definately would be interested!!

I am with DJ in the Mix, but so much of the stuff isnt really playable at the gigs that I do. But a mobile version of the website would be fantastic!!

yes, yes, yes and yes please

Okay i'll try to keep you updated with the developments as they happen.

So far I have been discussing this with several promotional companies already involved with legal music promotion. By dealing directly with these companies provided that we keep within their membership criteria, then we don't need any additional license to offer the tracks for download here on a members only basis subject to submitting checkable details to prove that you are a working DJ - this would be almost indentical to the DJ in the Mix service. So far one company has come back to me, and expressed a great interest in working with us.

There is also the flexibility of offering the same tracks on CD to those members who don't have download facilities, although a signed agreement would have to be provided to state that these tracks would not be resold elsewhere or the CD duplicated.

There would be costs involved with this, since like Mastermix et al, non of these companies work for free, however if we were buying the rights to distribute the material, and buying one set to distribute amongst 'X' number of members then the costs would be divided depending on how many people were subscribed.

So for instance if I paid £200 a month to the company for the rights to re-distribute all the material they offer on DJU and we had 20 members paying a monthly subscription, then the subscription would work out at £10 per member per month for an average of 22 new release tracks a month. Of course the subscription would be higher for those who wanted a CD, due to the additional costs involved and postage. This would be run as a non profit service, so whatever the costs to access the tracks would be split by however many people subscribed, plus a few additional pence per month for running our server.

The figures above are just off the top of my head, no deal has yet been negotiated, for all I know it may be £1000 a month!, this is why it is important to get as many people interested because more subscribers ultimately means a lower fee per person. Don't forget the costs involved also include the fact that we are working under the copyright license of the company who we are buying from, making the venture fully legal.

Of course a lot depends on what material they offer but in the last 12 months tracks by two of a kind, Blue, Alcazar, Anastacia, Angel City, Armand Van helden, Eric Prydz and Hilary Duff have appeared on their pre-release downloads, and all have gone on to become hits, so it is possible that we could be onto a winner . Their Dance Music subscription also seems to offer some nice remixes of existing chart tracks and even older 80's tracks as well.

They are going to send me their entire 2004 tracklist to show what has been included on their subscriptions over the past 10 months.

wooooo this sounds great! when i get up and running, you can definately count me in on this!

Well aye butt!!

yes very intrested.

cout me in

Okay, here is the full list, showing all of the tracks released via this companies database since Dec 2003.

The list is in Microsoft Word format and just over 320kb in size.

Please right click on the link below and chose 'Save As' to download.

Download the Release List (Right Click - Save As)

Count me in... I have the White label Disks but as you say they are club orientated. Though there is some good stuff on them...

Keep us informed....

Do we need to sign a petition?

some good stuff on there.... hope this works out... best of luck with them Chris

have u decided on payment methods yet chris?

Too Early to state figures yet, it all depends on the fee charged by the third party divided by the number of Subscribers, however I wouldn't insult them by asking them to quote for a contracted membership package for only 10 or 15 members and hence I may have to take this beyond the exclusivity of the forum and offer it publically to other DJ's as well by way of a website similar to DJITM.

There is also another person involved in this venture with me, so I'll be meeting up with him at some point to discuss it further.

Payment methods could realistically be anything from Cheque to Paypal paid either monthly or quarterly, but still too early to quote figures.

Yes please SIR !!

Count Me INNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNn

Well about 20 interested so far....

About Half Way there then

Just looked at Radio Ones 'A', 'B' and 'C' playlists and found a handful of tracks from the list posted above. Since the release list represents new singles offered to us at between 3 - 9 weeks prior to their offical high street release it looks like its fairly reliable, at least as reliable as any other Pre-release discs with a few former number ones and several top 10 hits on the list .

Of course it also means that you may look at the list when it is released and have never heard of any of the tracks on there, but that is the point of pre-release, since you get them at around the same time as the Radio Stations schedule them for airplay .

This is much the same as CDpool, you take a chance of how many from the disc are likely to become hits. However we hope to offer a similar service, and membership willing, at a far lower price than the disc only based services and with content more suited to Mobile and not just Club DJ's. Of course we can also look at producing a CD offered version as well if there is demand.

I now also have confirmation that all downloads will be offered at 192k quality Or Higher.

Here are the latest tracks from this Weeks chart genre release...

01. Busted - She Wants To Be Me [Radio Edit]
02. Agent Blue - Crossbreed
03. The Morenas - Coming Here
04. The Streets - Could Well Be In [Album - Lyrics!]
05. Cherubs - Hey Bunny
06. Dizzee Rascal - Dream
07. Girls Aloud - I'll Stand By You
08. Embrace - Ashes
09. Joss Stone - Alfie
10. Kristian Leontiou - Some Say [Album Version]
11. The Beautiful South - Livin' Thing
12. Marah - Freedom Park
13. The Basement - Do You Think You're Movin' On
14. Ronan Keating feat. Yusuf - Father & Son
15. Sandra McCracken - Where Do You Go To My Lovely
16. Terry Callier - Stripper
17. Molella - Sunshine [Album Edit]
18. Kylie Minogue - I Believe In You
19. The Blueprint - Phenomenology
20. Finn Brothers - Nothing Wrong With You
21. Intenso Project feat. Lisa Scott-Lee - Get It On
22. Mark Joseph - Lady Lady [Dave Fridmann Mix]


BONUS TRACKS

Paul Weller - Thinking Of You [Edit]
Charlotte Hatherly - Kim Wilde


and the tracks from this weeks Dance Genre release:-


01. Starsplash - Hardstyle, My Style [Radio Mix]
02. Amiel - Lovesong [Scumfrog Remix Radio - Lyrics!]
03. Swen G - Follow Me (Vai Com A Gente) [Jerry Ropero vs. DTM Radio Mix]
04. Aventura - Hermanita [Radio Dance Remix]
05. Tool's feat. Iba - Sexy Cherry [Original Clap Edit]
06. 2Play feat. Thomas Jules & Jucxi D - Careless Whisper [Garage Remix]
07. Incognito - Listen To The Music [Radio Edit]
08. Mutiny feat. Loraine Cato - Holding On
09. Solar City - S.W.A.T. [Solar City Radio Edit]
10. ATB - Here With Me [Airplay Mix]
11. Bamboola Prod - Bahia [Radio Mix]
12. Maverick - Lonely Star [Evolution Edit]
13. Brad Carter - Morning Always Comes Too Soon [Extended Mix]
14. Kid Alex - St. Tropez [Groove Rebels Remix]
15. Mohito feat. Howard Jones - Slip Away [Radio Mix]
16. Solitaire - I'm Thinking Of You (Baby) [Radio Edit]
17. Drunkenmunky - Calabria [Radio Mix]
18. Florida Inc. - I Need Your Lovin' [Original Edit]
19. Promise Land vs. Netzwerk - Memories [Full Radio Mix]
20. Nightbreed - Pack Of Wolves
21. Decline & Wizard - Why Don't You


BONUS TRACKS

Michael Gray - The Weekend [Original Mix]
Nightbreed - Pack Of Wolves [Pendulum Remix]
Evil Nine - Crooked
Rennie Pilgrem - Coming Up For Air

Will be interesting to see how successful these tracks become in the following months.

Chris, well everyone really...

I can see that this might be one of those amazing services which might be slow to take off, but would build a very large following, very quickly.

How would people feel if subscribing to the service meant that for the first month it was quite high, then fell by a variable percentage as more and more people got on-board? I'd go for it - and our own word of mouth would lead to direct savings for all.

For example: (and please remember these are ONLY examples...)

Month 1. Service Cost = £500 divided by 20 members, each paying £25.00 per month.
Month 2. Service Cost = £500 divided by 22 members, each paying £22.73 per month.
Month 3. Service Cost = £500 divided by 24 members, each paying £20.83 per month.
Month 4. Service Cost = £500 divided by 26 members, each paying £19.23 per month.
Month 5. Service Cost = £500 divided by 28 members, each paying £17.86 per month.
Month 6. Service Cost = £500 divided by 30 members, each paying £16.67 per month.
Month 7. Service Cost = £525 divided by 33 members, each paying £15.91 per month.
Month 8. Service Cost = £525 divided by 36 members, each paying £14.58 per month.
Month 9. Service Cost = £525 divided by 39 members, each paying £13.46 per month.
Month 10. Service Cost = £525 divided by 42 members, each paying £12.50 per month.
Month 11. Service Cost = £525 divided by 46 members, each paying £11.41 per month.
Month 12. Service Cost = £525 divided by 50 members, each paying £10.50 per month.
Month 13. Service Cost = £550 divided by 55 members, each paying £10.00 per month.
Month 14. Service Cost = £550 divided by 60 members, each paying £09.17 per month.
Month 15. Service Cost = £550 divided by 66 members, each paying £08.33 per month.
Month 16. Service Cost = £550 divided by 72 members, each paying £07.64 per month.
Month 17. Service Cost = £550 divided by 79 members, each paying £06.96 per month.
Month 18. Service Cost = £550 divided by 86 members, each paying £06.40 per month.


These figures above project a VERY conservative take-up rate by new subscribers AND also work on Service Cost to Chris (server costs/hosting costs(?)) increasing every 6 months...

Below is a more enthusiastic projection with more members taking up the offer...

Month 1. Service Cost = £500 divided by 20 members, each paying £25.00 per month.
Month 2. Service Cost = £500 divided by 23 members, each paying £21.74 per month.
Month 3. Service Cost = £500 divided by 26 members, each paying £19.23 per month.
Month 4. Service Cost = £500 divided by 29 members, each paying £17.24 per month.
Month 5. Service Cost = £500 divided by 33 members, each paying £15.15 per month.
Month 6. Service Cost = £500 divided by 37 members, each paying £13.51 per month.
Month 7. Service Cost = £525 divided by 42 members, each paying £12.50 per month.
Month 8. Service Cost = £525 divided by 48 members, each paying £10.94 per month.
Month 9. Service Cost = £525 divided by 55 members, each paying £09.55 per month.
Month 10. Service Cost = £525 divided by 63 members, each paying £08.33 per month.
Month 11. Service Cost = £525 divided by 72 members, each paying £07.29 per month.
Month 12. Service Cost = £525 divided by 82 members, each paying £06.40 per month.
Month 13. Service Cost = £550 divided by 94 members, each paying £05.85 per month.
Month 14. Service Cost = £550 divided by 108 members, each paying £05.09 per month.
Month 15. Service Cost = £550 divided by 124 members, each paying £04.44 per month.
Month 16. Service Cost = £550 divided by 142 members, each paying £03.87 per month.
Month 17. Service Cost = £550 divided by 163 members, each paying £03.37 per month.
Month 18. Service Cost = £550 divided by 187 members, each paying £02.94 per month.

hello chris. a very impressive release list u posted recently. you know if this brill idea goes ahead, will you be offering 'unlimited' downloads?

like for example as stated above as an example, we pay £25 a month and get unlimited downloads included in the fee

Sorry to 'spoil' the excitement......If the existing providers of legal downloads such as DJ In the Mix need 'X' amount of 'members' - then so will this venture, no?

Having read the amount of post replies / interest in the idea, I can't really see the idea getting off the ground unless at least 60 or 70+ members show a definite, positive commitment.

Come on folks, we need more 'names' to 'thumbs ups' or it'll become another nice idea passed over.

Gary, your example is indeed correct, since this won't be running as a profit service, the cost to each subscriber would vary depending on the number of members subscribing. So as more joined and the take up rate increased then the per subscriber cost would decrease.

Equally, we would need enough subscribers however to avoid the domino effect, since the reverse would also apply, and if people dropped out, the price would rise to the other subscribers, and we need enough subscribers to avoid steep price increases, so that if two people left, the price would rise beyond peoples budget and there would be a mass exodus!.

Dan's example would be a good and reasonable figure, with 50 - 75 members it wouldn't matter if one or two people dropped out since the rise to the others would only be pence, however if there was only 10 subscribers to start with and 2 left - the rise would be significant. As i've said before, I won't entertain even giving the go ahead for this until we have a reasonable amount of people committing.

There are other factors to consider, such as the cost of the server, with 30 - 50 members downloading upto 50 tracks a month the server could be run fairly competitively on a VPS. However if 100 or more people joined we would have to invest in a dedicated server costing quite a bit every month - all costs which have to be factored into the monthly subscription.

So I propose that we sign up 40 - 50 members on a subscription basis and then close the membership for a while to see how the idea progresses before expanding further. If it works well then we would move to more server capacity and re-open the subscriptions, however the empathsis is to take each step at a time, since rushing into these things often spells their untimely downfall. Besides we are a long way off the number of subscribers required at the moment.

There are a few guys I know who would probably be quite interested in this idea. They're not members of DIU though, I have told them about it but they weren't interested. However, if they had to be a member to use this service then I'd guess they'd almost certainly become members; but, what is the situation regarding this? will it be only open to people that have been members of DJU for a specific length of time/certain number of posts or will it be open to anyone who can prove they're a DJ?

Initially I would have liked to recruit the first subscribers from DJU. Call it a loyalty reward if you like . Then if it worked okay and with time become successful it would be open to anybody who can prove that they are a working DJ.

Obviously there will be some criteria required to prove your DJ status, but I don't think that the requirements would be a problem to most people here or indeed any DJ who is established. The criteria is there to protect the idea from those who want to access the server and download the material to flog at the local car boot sale. There will be security procedures in place to prevent leeching like this, and access passwords will be changed on a regular basis etc.

But if our membership is reluctant to support the idea then ultimately it looks like we may have to go more public in order to obtain the required number of subscribers and look beyond DJU despite my original intentions. I'm already in the process of building a suitable website, and an opt in mailing list will be eventually created to register your interest in the service.

It would be nice if this service could promote DJU and vice versa but I don't want people signing up purely to access the downloads, so I think we will end up opening the service up to all DJ's right from the start.

Just to put a 'little insular squeeze' on the subject, and I hope to be totally proved wrong, I presume the rest of the 'forum' regulars still remain undecided whether to 'latinize' the idea???

sublimate / abstention

Chris,

Looking at the word document you posted on Monday, they seam to have covered almost every track I can think of (with the exception of Nelly's "My Place"). In many ways the selection is better than the CD Pool that I currently subscribe to.

So reading all the above, I change my "Yes, if..." to a definite "YES - Count Me In!"

Jae,

There are more reliable means to determining whether an individual is a DJ. These include NADJ / SEDA / MU Membership numbers or Evidence of PLI cover, checkable work references (ie a contact name and phone number of a Pub / Hotel that they cover) it would be doubtful that the average car booter, or bedroom DJ would go to these efforts / expense just to access our server and we would be keeping on the right side of the copyright laws by putting this into practice. I agree with part of what you say, if you only buy £5 - £10 a month on new cd's then this isn't going to appeal to you, but how many gigs or whether you are a pro or semi pro is immaterial, if you DJ for money more than once, then technically you qualify.

Gary, you share the same philosophy as me but it's difficult enough getting people to participate in these ventures without moving the goalposts and putting a post count figure into the requirements. Ultimately we are not going to get 50 participants from this forum, and so far we haven't even got enough potential subscribers to get the idea off the ground. On this basis i'll be throwing the doors open to any bona fide' DJ regardless of whether he/she is a member of DJU or not - provided they meet the criteria and pay their subscription on time.

Hi Chris & all.

I think this sounds great!

Maybe I'm not getting my head round this possibly because I don't really get into downloading music at all and currently rely on cd services such as master mix & dmc, but it would be great to avoid the duplication and to have a greater choice.
Could you explain how this might work for cd based dj's like myself.
Sorry if I've missed this as I've been scanning through this topic rather excitedly

Thanks

Vinnie

PS - count me in

Initially it would be a download service, however if there was sufficient demand we may look at launching a CD based subscription with discs sent out (at a higher price to cover the cost of the disc and postage obviously) however, you need to bear in mind the fact that this is a non profit excercise and not a business, and the last thing that I want to be doing is to reach a point where I am spending all day burning discs for people when I have to earn a living.

DJae

99% of what I do are weddings or birthdays etc. I subscribe to Pro Disk every month just to make sure I have the tunes that "may" get requested, so to me this idea is fantastic!!!

I buy music ALL the time.. From auctions, car boots etc just to make sure that a song I was requested for last month at a gig, I have for the next time (if ever) i get asked for it.

I know this is somewhat ott and maybe pointless, but for example I was asked for the Space Brothers for a wedding I have on Friday, I dont have it so purchased it online for delivery today/tomorrow.

If I had downloaded it legally and could play it legally at a gig, then (and I know I'm not the only hoarder here) I would keep all the tracks I ever downloaded, either on HD or an mp3 disk and catalogue them. Therefore negating my mad rush to buy the track on a CD just for one gig....

Will I ever play it after Friday? Probably not. But needed on the night - Yes

But if it was only costing me £20 a month (cost of DMC's monthly disk for example) then I would gladly pay it... Remember it can also go down as a business expense, and if you are playing 40-50 gigs a year then you must definately be registered with the tax man.... Imagine NOT having to buy Now Thats What I Call Rubbish vol 25688833..

What bliss!!

Jae

I respect your situation and your viewpoint and agree with a great deal with what you have put. I wouldn't expect you to waste money either on something which you may not have any requirement for. In return you have to realise that this isn't a Sunday afternoon picnic that we are planning, from the point of view of the third party concerned this is a commercial venture, if we are talking penny numbers here then it'll get laughed out, I cannot get any prices until I have at least 50, or ideally more people registering an interest.

But at least you have been good enough to put in your comment and let me know where you stand in regard to this.

There are others, who in the past, have taken part in the 'Why don't Mastermix, Dmc etc offer their service in a cheaper downloadable format' style discussion, and now when the opportunity does arise those people are remaining silent. Perhaps ultimately this is why as a nation we continually get ripped off, and anybody who has an idea for saving money isn't supported , perhaps ultimately people like paying over the odds?.

A few weeks ago, there was a big 'who-haw' about converting original material to MP3 format, now as a direct result of that thread we have a legal means for people to download new material to laptops, MP3 players or burn to disc. It would be nice for people to pass comment on the positive side of threads rather than just seeing the negative ones as an opportunity to 'have a go' at somebody else.

Definately Interested

I can't see a reason why you would want to download a given track more than once , but technically you could if you really wanted to.

no i asked just in case. eg if there were like 12 songs which i wanted to download but i could only download say 9 of them due to limited downloads or something like that