The other way of course is to get the missus to pick up the Yellow Pages and ask people their price. I also found another way to ensure a few more bookings, sneaky but effective! I cold called a couple of local community halls and asked if the DJ's were PAT tested and in posession of PLI, after having to explain to a very interested Hall manager what it was and shovwing him my certificates, a notice has now gone up to the effect ALL Disco's must comply and my phone number and photos are in the Hall managers office.

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asked if the DJ's were PAT tested and in posession of PLI

The dirty tricks campaign has started in Sunny Essex

Well before I get jumped on by the part timers, I do think its time the full timers were more ruthless and stood up for themselves!

Before you all jump on me, any part time 'professional' who pays his taxes, and has PLI and PAT testing have nothing to fear from me. What I DO object to is the part - time fly by nights giving us a bad name.

So if canvassing my local pubs, clubs whatever, makes more work for me and less for them then so be it!

At the end of the day I do this to keep a roof over my head, and feed my family, I pay my taxes so why should I worry about bottom feeders who pay nothing and effectively steal the food from my mouth.

Nice to see you moved it into its own thread! Now why did'nt I think of that??

Great debating points here and thanks to Spindoctor for raising, however, would prefer to title to be aimed at the cowboys rather than a them and us dig between the full time and poart time pro's.


Cris

No sooner said than done Cris and I do agree with you, it was not aimed at Semi-Pro's.

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I cold called a couple of local community halls and asked if the DJ's were PAT tested

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"Offer something others don't"

In this case Dr Spin is offering 'Piece of mind'. Yet another great idea from this forum.

PAT tested these days offers no significant difference between DJ's. After all, any competent person can pat test their own equipment.

Public Liability can generally be seen as a good thing, some may see it that you've had a number of accidents in the past and want to cover your butt, or it can also mean that the potential is there for something to go wrong, or the point we want to try and get across is by showing that we care for our clients, should anything go wrong, we have sufficient cover in respect of that. This is that peace of mind stuff

Why should we have to rely on PAT testing and PLI to prove that we're decent DJ's? Any cowboy can get PAT testing and PLI, it's not expensive.

Experience and the ability to entertain should be the thing that separates us from the bottom feeders, not inexpensive gimmicks that really don't measure how good we are.

QUOTE (ian @ May 6 2003, 04:04 PM)

Experience and the ability to entertain should be the thing that separates us from the bottom feeders, not inexpensive gimmicks that really don't measure how good we are.

I agree, if your good enough you will get the work at the fee's you require.

If you're not you won't.

Hmmm I agree with part of what you say about ability etc. but

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Why should we have to rely on PAT testing and PLI to prove that we're decent DJ's? Any cowboy can get PAT testing and PLI, it's not expensive.

Anyone 'can' get it, experience shows that normally they don't bother!! If it is the first step to customers recognising some body who cares versus somebody who is only too willing to take their money and run then so be it.

Yeah but is it though? If I was a real w ker I could get PLI and PAT testing certificates tell them how good I am coz i've got this stuff and then on the night just after i've been paid (at the beginning of the night) I put on the crappiest show ever.

See....no difference. PLI and PAT certificates don't mean jack.

Professionalism, experience and ability is the key here, there ain't no certificates for that.

QUOTE

Experience and the ability to entertain should be the thing that separates us from the bottom feeders, not inexpensive gimmicks that really don't measure how good we are.

Having PAT & PLI is all part of the package of being professional - whether you're part time or full time.
I would also add to this - keeping your gear looking good (no rusty speaker fronts), being on time, dressing appropriately, not getting drunk. (these last two are covered in other threads).
Yes the 'Ability to entertain' is the main criteria but the other points should not be overlooked. Some of my clients would not book me if I didn't have £5mill PLI no matter how good my ability to entertain. It might be inexpensive but 'a gimmick'!

Paul S

LOL I already said i agree with you Ian! We are not trying to educate the professionals here no matter what there thoughts, we are trying to educate Joe Public, if that means they only hire DJ's with the right certificates it still means an awful lot of unprofessionals out of business. This in turn means a higher proportion of good DJ's getting work and our whole reputation as seen by Joe Public improves.

Yes at the end of the day nothing beats reputation, but if you can't work because you don't have the necessary paperwork then things will become more regulated. Its happening in lots of trades not only ours, (look at the building trade)!

so far ive been lucky, ive only ever been asked for a pat cartificate once and that was at a shopping centre, surrey quays, i've even worked the grosvenor house hotel, park lane and wasn't asked. i must get round to getting one though and i agree that pat testing is a good thing, i mean ive seen lots of dodgy light boxes with wires hanging out the bulgins etc, and you know what kids are like ~ ive even seen a mobile with light boxes without screens that actually had bulbs missing so if a kid stuck his finger in at the moment he would be zapped !!

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We are not trying to educate the professionals

That said, even the Professionals can continue to learn, I don't think that in our industry you can truely say "I know / have seen it all".

Interesting to note that many venues are guilty of not displaying "Tested" labels on outlets, I have been to venues where the earth has been non existant on outlets, and some spotty deputy manager thinks that it is perfectly acceptable for the bar / disco / caterer in a Marquee Function to attempt to draw 18 amps from his 10 amp flymo extension lead and then wonders where the burnt patches on the grass came from!.

You have the right (and is recommended) to refuse to plug into a socket outlet which is clearly dangerous. RCD's are a must for D.J's they cost £14.99 or less and may save your life, they also indicate no earth connection on the socket, so hands up, truthfully - how many professionals are actively using one hmm?

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You have the right (and is recommended) to refuse to plug into a socket outlet which is clearly dangerous. RCD's are a must for D.J's they cost £14.99 or less and may save your life, they also indicate no earth connection on the socket, so hands up, truthfully - how many professionals are actively using one hmm?

I use one , along with a surge protector .

I always use one, ever since my roadie was given a belt off a dodgy socket. It cost me a fortune in drinks to get that green colour out of his face, but it could have cost him his life!!

Marquee's, Take your own earth rod, and hammer the thing in hard.

I'm probably not going to make to many comments here, because if I do, it will prbably get me banned form the site.

QUOTE (ian @ May 6 2003, 03:04 PM)

PAT tested these days offers no significant difference between DJ's. After all, any competent person can pat test their own equipment.

Sorry - wrong!
Yes, you can now buy a low-end Portable Appliance tester for under £400 (the good ones are a Grand up), but you are supposed to be a qualified electrician with up-to-date JIB to use it and have the authority to issue the cert.
If it were that easy I would be doing it myself as I have an electronics background.
Who will sign the cert for you?

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Take your own earth rod, and hammer the thing in hard

So that's why Paula's always smiling!

QUOTE (The Spindoctor @ May 6 2003, 07:08 PM)

This in turn means a higher proportion of good DJ's getting work

Having PAT & PLI doesnot make you a good DJ

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Having PAT & PLI doesnot make you a good DJ

True, but having Car Insurance doesn't make you a good driver either. But like vehicle insurance, having PLI is a legal requirement.

We seem to be going round in circles here.......... having PLI and PAT testing does not make you a good DJ we all agree on that. However having these items is necessary if you are to be seen as professional in the job you do, indeed as Chris said it is a legal requirement. No matter what way you look at it if you don't have these then you are acting unprofessionally and I have no qualms in making it as difficult as possible for the unprofessional to work in my area.

I think that the original point of Spin's message was that this was a way to approach those venues/establishments that you know have work but how do you offer something that their present mobile doesn't.
PLI & PAT are 2 very visibile pieces of weaponry in this cause. You can show someone the certificates, accentuating the impression that you want to give that if your a pro or semi-pro, you are professional in your approach.
We all will say that we are good at what we do, who wouldn't, although we can all learn new tricks and take in advice through forums like this.
The potential customer and in this case that Spin is talking about, this is a new customer, just saying you'll give a good performance isn't enough to clinch that first booking. You have to offer something else.
After that the recommendation from him will be that you are professional and are good at what you are doing.

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ May 7 2003, 10:23 AM)

QUOTE Having PAT & PLI doesnot make you a good DJ True, but having Car Insurance doesn't make you a good driver either. But like vehicle insurance, having PLI is a legal requirement.

Thats the point, I was subtely making.

You must have it but it does not make you a good DJ, there are a lot of things that go to making a good DJ, Pat & PLI make you a safe DJ