Do Haze machines set off smoke detectors?



Also, what is the argument on smoke detectors as some people say you are ok to switch them off in a room that has people in as the people act as the detectors, others say that you can knock one or two off, and obviously some people say that they cannot be switched off at all



I would appreciate your views, I think knocking a couple off if possible is a compromise because you can get covers for them.

Haze machine still set off some alarms, so don't think they are 100% smoke alarm friendly.

I don't know the legal side of smoke alarm zoning, some venues can zone off an area, some can but won't, some can't at all, some will sometimes, so I give up on the second part of the question

My main venue has optical smoke sensors, rather than the more common "ionization" type.

Opticals work by having a light source about 4inchs away from an electronic eye (sometimes this all works at Infra~red frequencies, so dont always expect to see a bulb)...the "eye" looks at the light source (mere inches away) and goes off if theres enough light being blocked.

These things of course get dirtier and dirtier the longer they go without cleaning, so the more and more sensitive they get as a dirty sensor sees less light than a clean one.

Some venues will be jeopardising their fire insurance by turning their detectors off.

they wont be jeapordising their insurance... they will be invalidating it completely.... only a very irresponsible venue would agree to turn off smoke alarms for the sake of a dj using his smoke machine!

Don't be so stupid.

Smoke detectors save peoples lives, saved mine once 2.

Turned them off is very stupid, illegal (im guessing) and shouldnt be done at ANY costs.

I agree with you that smoke detectors save lives and in normal circumstances should never be turned off..........

However certain venues not all!! (nightclubs, hotels etc) do have the facility to isolate the detectors over the dancefloor to prevent false alarms, these only come into action when the building is empty and the alarms fully set. They tend to rely on air con removing the smoke/haze before it reachs the bar area but still having a nice smoky dancefloor,

These may or may not isolate for you and seems to depend on the managers mood on the night!!

Just my 4d worth

Spin

Technology aside, there seems to be an increasing number of venues (and audiences for that matter) who simply dont want smoke.

Best to ensure that your lighting that looks "wicked" with smoke, also looks good without it too.

Any manager who oks it for a smoke detector to be switched off should be taken to the nearest fire station and made to watch videos of the effects of fire. Smoke detectors and how many, are put up in accordance with fire regulations. If the inspecting fire officer deems that there should be four in a particular room, then four should be there - and working at all times. Whats more important - a dj being able to show off his smoke machine... or the lives of people at the venue. Smoke detectors save lives!

Fair enough !

Time to implement "Plan B"

(hand out cigars to those sitting at tables nearest the dancefloor...Yes even to the Gentlemen too, if youve got enough cigars left )

Ha

That's true !!

Do you not find sometimes that there is enough smoke from cigarettes to give you enough for your effects anyway?

I can see a new topic on the way....................

Careful folks, we're validating Spins argument for the use of screens.
scared.gif hehehe can't find it, they all say smilies!

Darren

he he, or get a soundlab smoke machine that gives out hardly any smoke to notice anyway! ;-)

most of my discos are for children at schools and village halls. they all request smoke :-) Only one of the schools I have performed in had smoke detectors in the main hall, mainly so they can hold these type of events.

The one that did have it was the local public school and they didn't realise it, asked us to use smoke and we set it off. Resulting in the whole school and all the boarding houses (some 100s of yards away on the other side of a main road) being trooped out on to the playing fields and waiting for the fire brigade to come and reset the alarm. We were very embarrassed but not as much as the staff that had told us it was ok to use the smoke.


As for the village halls, if they have a smoke detector it is a battery powered one in the middle of the hall. So with the clients permission we remove the battery. It is always regarded that the audience would detect the difference between manufactured smoke and genuine smoke if the worse should happen.


Of course due to the ages involved we don't have the advantage of asking the audience to smoke heavily themselves :-(

You remove the battery yourself?..... Whoops there goes any insurance up in smoke! Do you actually know how fast a fire can spread......? We arent talking minutes here..... fires spread in seconds..... To remove a battery from a smoke machine is nothing more than irresponsible.... In fact, I consider it criminal.. you are putting not only yourself at risk but also the people you are entertaining. Perhaps one day, if you are ever in the unfortunate situation when a smoke alarm actually saves your life, you will realise the importance of them... its often not until its too late before we realise. DONT DO IT!

I'm not too comfortable with the idea of people removing batteries from Smoke Detectors either, or even isolating zones on larger installation panels, and to achieve what? - the use of a fog machine??!!! . Geez the value of life is getting cheaper by the minute.

The 'net is littered with articles of what happens when fire breaks out in a club or venue packed with people, and the results are not pleasant reading. Only last year in the U.S a fire caused by a Live band called "Great White" using Pyrotechnics killed a band member and 86 young people, purely through negligence and inadequate fire detecting equipment. READ The story if you need to be convinced

In small buildings, fire can spread at ceiling level in tenths of a second, dropping flaming bits of polystyrene ceiling on the dancefloor and reaching a fire door long before you do. Heat from light effects can easily ignite materials and drapes on the stage, electrical faults can cause fires in switchgear rooms, and fuse boards which may be unattended and away from the occupied room - so early warning is VITAL.

The biggest killer in a venue fire, is not the flames or the heat, its the panic and the smoke that KILL, and a smoke alarm, however basic can give you those vital minutes to help avoid both, or at least minimise them. and if the worst should happen, I wouldn't like to think that I may have contributed to somebody dying purely through my desire to make my lights look pretty. Would you?.

simply dont do it, its so dangerous to turn off a smoke alarm, if you cant use smoke in a venue then you cant use it full stop

It is interesting to see all the comments about smoke machines. I have one if needed (although waiting for a simple repair). Over the last 6 months I've been using it much less, mainly because none of my clients wanted it.

Yes they do make lighting effects look great, but seems to clog up fans and air intakes with an oily residue.

A great deal of my work involves working with children and teenagers and too many suffer from asthma, therefore smoke is a no-no.

On a slightly different topic has anyone used these smoke in can? It is supposed to hang around for a long time in still air. Could be useful on the odd occasion?

Hi Ya! I used the smoke in a can once, it was useless, a total waste of time and money. I use a smoke machine occasionally and very lightly, but most of the Hotels in Brum have banned them upon instructions from Birmingham City Council. NEVER EVER EVEN CONTEMPLATE DISCONNECTING A SMOKE ALARM....what gives you that right????

Obviously different areas of the country work differently - we are always asked for the smoke machine and bubble machines - I think we have only been asked not to use them once.

Parents booking their kids parties seem to pick up on this in our YP advert and it appears they book us over the competition because we offer them.

I have never had any asthma sufferer complain about the smoke machine, I even have a regular helper who suffers from asthma and he says it doesn't effect him.

I have has more requests not to use strobe lighting than not to use smoke.

We suffer from kids inhaling the smoke and then blowing out in their friends face, we were so concerned about this that we sought advice on the composition of the fluid. It came back that it is non toxic and the only danger was that they might burn themselves off the machines nozzle - but we always keep the machines well back so they can't touch the nozzle - although in effect it does not get that hot on the mini junior smoke machines we use.

Where are you from tnt? It is interesting to hear that you get work because you advertise that you use a smoke machine. I have about twenty odd schools on my books - all of which - bar none - insist that I do not use smoke. Other customers, where the kids parties are concerned, ask "Do you use smoke"... when I reply "No" - they say "good". Harmful or not, you know what some kids are like.. they see a speaker and instantly put their fingers in their ears - they see a smoke machine and instantly start to cough!

The use of them is not really the issue here anyhow... as load of people have said, smoke/haze machines are definitely on the out as regards to your average mobile disco. Hopefully though, when you use one you wont take the batteries out of the smoke alarm.

I am happy I live whre I do and not south of the border most of you have problems with sound limiters and smoke, I have only once come across a limiter and that was set well high, we tried to peak it but couldn't ! and yet to be told we cant use smoke , move North its more fun !

Most of my work is in Somerset or East Devon. No school has ever asked for anything not to be used. Occasionaly (very) have private bookings ask for something not to be used.

In the most instances the first question they ask when making a booking enquiry s 'Ah i see you advert says you have smoke and bubbles - do i have to pay more for those or is it included in the price'.

It sometimes drives me mad when people ring me up to do a party for their 5yo kid just cause they want a bubble machine. They would be better of getting a ghetto blaster in the corner and buying a bubble machine themselves. They could purchase both from Argos for less than we charge ! lol

Of course the big thing now is that they are all asking for 'Foam or Snow machines' - personally i try to talk them out of it due to the mess. The bubble machines make the floor slippy enough, Foam is even worse.

I have a friend who does Foam parties in night clubs etc, he has to put wood shavings down on the dance floor, steps etc, to absorb the foam so the floor doesn't get to slippy. Its a right mess to clean up - but the clubs don't mind - they have cleaning companies that come in ! lol

Ninelives - if we moved north we wouldnt get the fees us southerners charge!

well if your up there ninelives, it sure will be fun...... xxxx

I have been lucky enough to do 2 giant foam parties in sports halls and 1 in a club and the foam was never any problem. Who was saying living in the north was cheaper? cheaper than monaco,just

I use smoke and strobe at every disco I do,
It is always requested. I mainly do teenage discos. And once we have used the strobe once we are asked to use it again at the start of just about every song!! We have never had any problem with smoke and the kids love it. We are considering incesting in a hazer and a snow machine.

I personally think the use of all these "special effects" is down to the DJ and Punter relationship. The majority of my work is Golf Clubs, Masonic Lodges and Hotels and I definatley dont do kid's functions. I can, however, understand the demand from this sector and if I was involved I would use all of them more extensively than I do. I have Pyros, Bubbles,Smoke and Snow, but only use them when apropriate. (And how many Ps are there in apropriate?)

The only thing I can realy add is that you are the man on the ground, make the call, but be prepared to be in a position where you can justify your decision. After all, you are a proffessional and are paid to make that call....... it's you reputation!

I think depends on the type of foam. the machine i tried was the Source Snow machine and its foam was litteral the same as bubble bath foam - wet and very slippy. However i have also used party foam in a can and it was excellant - looked like a can of shaving foam with out the scents - but it dried to a white powder which just disappeared - no mess and not slippery. It was good also due to being in a can it could be taken into the croud and squirted like silly string. Kids loved to take the cans and run round with it thenselves. Total non toxic, no slippery fun with no mess after. Unfortuanately my supplier stopped selling it and the manafactures don't answer my emails to try and find another stockist :-)

Ahhh...silly string... theres another kettle of fish... non toxic, and kids love it - and I have never had anyone complain about that!

Kingy, you are a man of wisdom....!

Ah yes Kazz but then you have the Hall management committee after you, because despite all assurances to the contrary silly string does stain floors exactly the same as cheap party poppers!!!

As to the foam question I use my machines at every kids disco and it must depend on the fluid used because mine evaporates with no slippery floors or problems whatsoever.

Just my 4d worth

Spin