Beaten to it ?
Full Version: Numark HD MP3 Deck
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Chris I thought you were going to send the unit out to us for testing before releasing it ?
Beaten to it ?
Beaten to it ?
Nice bit of kit for £1000
I'll stick with Ots though
I'll stick with Ots though
£1000!!!!! - Where? 
. $2199 works out at around £1200 - then you've got UK VAT to add onto that. Still, It's about time that somebody brought a commerical unit onto the market and at least that "somebody" is not KAM.
I can't see it selling well at that price - considering the earlier DJU Poll where most of you wanted those features, and more for less than £500
. I, must admit that I gave up on the idea when I discovered the OTSDJ Software.
. $2199 works out at around £1200 - then you've got UK VAT to add onto that. Still, It's about time that somebody brought a commerical unit onto the market and at least that "somebody" is not KAM.I can't see it selling well at that price - considering the earlier DJU Poll where most of you wanted those features, and more for less than £500
. I, must admit that I gave up on the idea when I discovered the OTSDJ Software.
I love the idea of a dedicated DJ hardware solution to MP3 storage, but I would want the option of a larger display on each cd deck...perhaps an external video out connector for a couple of 14inch Tft panels etc
I like it !!! But of course we all know that now it is out it will only be a matter of time before others join the bandwagon and give it 18 months maybe less than that and prices should be quite reasonable........
I'm in no hurry
Just my 4d worth
Spin
I'm in no hurry
Just my 4d worth
Spin
About time too. Numark had the vision - lets hope the competition take note, and 'catch up'!!!
Numark had the vision, Gemini could have the price - unfortunately we no longer have Rob!. 
Until we meet again at Plasa !!
It takes the fun out of DJing, you can do that already with the PC software out so
why would you buy the Numark which is not upgradeable where as a PC is, ever
tried a great sound card, like creative's audigy player via WMP9, great sounding
card for around 50 to 60 quid, I dont see the point and I think it kills off the idea
of a hiring a DJ and thinking that he's gonna be active where as this system makes
it look to. well' cheating, good idea though and will no doubt be the future of DJs
cos its easier to find a song as its all there.
Think you came in on that a bit strong actually Chris, if you ask around the forum or chase up previous posts there are a lot of DJ's here using one or more laptops with DJ mixing software myself included.
It was agreed on a previous thread that it is not the equipment that defines how good you are but what you do with it!! If that is the case then the Numark can no more construed as cheating than using laptops, or using Cd's instead of vinyl, minidisc instead of tape, etc etc
They said the compact disc would never catch on............ but RIP vinyl (as near as dammit)
It ain't what ya got, its the way that you use it as they say!
Just my 4d worth
Spin
It was agreed on a previous thread that it is not the equipment that defines how good you are but what you do with it!! If that is the case then the Numark can no more construed as cheating than using laptops, or using Cd's instead of vinyl, minidisc instead of tape, etc etc
They said the compact disc would never catch on............ but RIP vinyl (as near as dammit)
It ain't what ya got, its the way that you use it as they say!
Just my 4d worth
Spin
Agreed with Tony (Spin) the majority of functions I do (Family Functions, Weddings, 40th's, 60's nights etc) don't really require any skill, at beatmixing, Scratching etc in any case.
I consider getting the majority of people on the dancefloor, or at least doing my best to ensure that they have a good nights entertainment to be a skill rather then selecting music just because it happens to have a similar BPM to the one that is currently playing . Yes, there are clubs where this would be desirable, and people on this forum do enjoy both Club and Mobile work so both points are valid. However I would think that the PC aspect relates to mobile rather than club work in any case, and so your comment was an attack on the average Mobile D.J.
I seriously think thats its unfair to judge a D.J on what medium they use. I have come across D.J's who beat mix, and whom may have been the bogsdollocks at mixing jungle or hard house at the local 18-25 nightclub, but whom have no idea about what to play to a mixed 20 -80 year old age group, in the local village hall and have an empty dancefloor as a result. The same of course applies vice-versa.
I have never once, in 16 years, lost business through not playing a continuous, non stop 140bpm beat matched marathon at a Wedding Reception and neither has changing over from CD to laptop, recently, - had any detrimental effect on business. I doubt there is any more or less skill required to open a Jewel case and insert a CD into a tray, than clicking on keyboard or mouse. To most punters at Mrs Averages' function, they won't give a damn about whether the music is coming from Hard Drive, CD Player, Vinyl or wax disc!!!, providing the guests are enjoying themselves.
In the case of mixing, it could equally be argued that using a CD Player / mixer with nice clear Auto LED readouts of BPM levels, built in samplers, Kill Switches, and even Auto mixing circuitry that the skills of mixing had dropped!. I'm sure that you would also agree that the highest level of skill with regard to mixing, had to be in the days of the mid - late 80's when D.J's mixed using vinyl with only a Pair of Turntables, slipmats, and Headphones and their OWN SKILL, without the influence or assistance of the myriad of electronic gadgets found on equipment today.
Sadly, the whippersnappers of today, probably never remember those happy days of early House & Dance music.
I consider getting the majority of people on the dancefloor, or at least doing my best to ensure that they have a good nights entertainment to be a skill rather then selecting music just because it happens to have a similar BPM to the one that is currently playing
. Yes, there are clubs where this would be desirable, and people on this forum do enjoy both Club and Mobile work so both points are valid. However I would think that the PC aspect relates to mobile rather than club work in any case, and so your comment was an attack on the average Mobile D.J.I seriously think thats its unfair to judge a D.J on what medium they use. I have come across D.J's who beat mix, and whom may have been the bogsdollocks at mixing jungle or hard house at the local 18-25 nightclub, but whom have no idea about what to play to a mixed 20 -80 year old age group, in the local village hall and have an empty dancefloor as a result. The same of course applies vice-versa.
I have never once, in 16 years, lost business through not playing a continuous, non stop 140bpm beat matched marathon at a Wedding Reception and neither has changing over from CD to laptop, recently, - had any detrimental effect on business. I doubt there is any more or less skill required to open a Jewel case and insert a CD into a tray, than clicking on keyboard or mouse. To most punters at Mrs Averages' function, they won't give a damn about whether the music is coming from Hard Drive, CD Player, Vinyl or wax disc!!!, providing the guests are enjoying themselves.
In the case of mixing, it could equally be argued that using a CD Player / mixer with nice clear Auto LED readouts of BPM levels, built in samplers, Kill Switches, and even Auto mixing circuitry that the skills of mixing had dropped!. I'm sure that you would also agree that the highest level of skill with regard to mixing, had to be in the days of the mid - late 80's when D.J's mixed using vinyl with only a Pair of Turntables, slipmats, and Headphones and their OWN SKILL, without the influence or assistance of the myriad of electronic gadgets found on equipment today.
Sadly, the whippersnappers of today, probably never remember those happy days
of early House & Dance music.
| QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Jan 27 2004, 02:54 PM) |
| I'm sure that you would also agree that the highest level of skill with regard to mixing, had to be in the days of the mid - late 80's when D.J's mixed using vinyl with only a Pair of Turntables, slipmats, and Headphones and their OWN SKILL, without the influence or assistance of the myriad of electronic gadgets found on equipment today. Sadly, the whippersnappers of today, probably never remember those happy days of early House & Dance music. |
I semi agree chrispy with your point because djing is evolving as regards the media we use. I use both vinyl and cds and i get people who say cds are cheating when quized as to why, they can never answer but now, djs myself included are using cd players with advanced features(denon dns-5000) as a musical instument along side a good mixer (pionner djm500) i can get very creative thus adding a new level of complication and skill to djing as i have to time my loops samples mirror mix then add good use of a mixers effect's and you can create so much more than you ever could with vinyl alone but it gets more coplicated and harder than just beat matching two vinyls imho
I semi agree too.
I agree that the totally hands~off "automix" functions take away some of what being a DJ is all about.
Not that Pioneers "automix" or Numarks "beatkeeper" functions work right on 100% of mix attempts, but could you imagine how dull things would get if every DJ who owned "model x" and played the latest tune from Britney, directly after the latest track from Christina, output EXACTLY the same 5min 22.2second mix...
I agree that the totally hands~off "automix" functions take away some of what being a DJ is all about.
Not that Pioneers "automix" or Numarks "beatkeeper" functions work right on 100% of mix attempts, but could you imagine how dull things would get if every DJ who owned "model x" and played the latest tune from Britney, directly after the latest track from Christina, output EXACTLY the same 5min 22.2second mix...
| QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Jan 27 2004, 01:54 PM) |
| I'm sure that you would also agree that the highest level of skill with regard to mixing, had to be in the days of the mid - late 80's when D.J's mixed using vinyl with only a Pair of Turntables, slipmats, and Headphones and their OWN SKILL, without the influence or assistance of the myriad of electronic gadgets found on equipment today. Sadly, the whippersnappers of today, probably never remember those happy days of early House & Dance music. |
Agreed, however it was much easier to mix in the early days of house (which always had a consistant beat) than trying to mix soul/disco in the late 70's/early 80's before the widespread use of the drum machine and thus the beat often wandered all over the place!
The dj's and wannabe dj's who come out with crap like "it's too easy to mix with pc's" or "the fun is taken out by using mp3's" blah blah
are mostly talking out of their 
As Crispy says; as long as you have people dancing, who gives a sh
what format you're using , the punters don't care.Anyway, some of us have put in years of sweat & toil mixing on decks before the release of the SL12's... now THAT was hard, so I think we deserve to take it easy now by using a pc
Semiagree. No.
Totally agree!
Totally agree!
| QUOTE (Eskie @ Jan 27 2004, 07:16 PM) |
| Anyway, some of us have put in years of sweat & toil mixing on decks before the release of the SL12's... now THAT was hard, so I think we deserve to take it easy now by using a pc |
pre 1210s i forget sometimes what an old goat you really are esk!
| QUOTE (Gary @ Jan 26 2004, 11:43 AM) |
| I love the idea of a dedicated DJ hardware solution to MP3 storage, but I would want the option of a larger display on each cd deck...perhaps an external video out connector for a couple of 14inch Tft panels etc |
Then go the PC route, whats the point in buiyng one of these when a pc, if not 2
pc would act as individual systems, then you'd be able to upgrade with ease
Just a thought cos I dont see the point for this product when a pc is MORE than
capable if nit better
Cheers
The "Why not" for me would be a lack of trust in being able to resolve an issue on a PC or Laptop.
Ive no doubt that a backup harddrive, attached to a laptop, mirroring everything thats on the laptops internal drive will offer you a workaround that night simply by you pointing the DJ software at E: drive, instead of C: drive... However its the non harddrive related errors and hardware hiccups Eg: wont boot, reboots, hanging etc that any PC can suffer from, and will do, the more applications that are installed (or even worse running).
For me, Id want 2 laptops each with mirrored drives of each other and their own drives respectively (eg: 4 drives with identical data held on each).
Compared to PCs therefore, a hardware solution, like the Numark (and others to follow, no doubt) offer a more stable, sterile, error free working environment.
With ordinary CDs and even MP3 CDs, if your main Citronic DJ CD deck were to fail, you simply whip out two £30 highstreet store CDwalkman devices and can utilise all you tracks as normal. This backup plan, which I know others on here have mentioned,costs £60 all in.
It would be easy in concept for msnufacturers of DJ hardware harddrive solutions to offer either one, or two sockets for external monitors, except you wouldnt get touchscreen emulation easily via the larger monitor.
Ive no doubt that a backup harddrive, attached to a laptop, mirroring everything thats on the laptops internal drive will offer you a workaround that night simply by you pointing the DJ software at E: drive, instead of C: drive... However its the non harddrive related errors and hardware hiccups Eg: wont boot, reboots, hanging etc that any PC can suffer from, and will do, the more applications that are installed (or even worse running).
For me, Id want 2 laptops each with mirrored drives of each other and their own drives respectively (eg: 4 drives with identical data held on each).
Compared to PCs therefore, a hardware solution, like the Numark (and others to follow, no doubt) offer a more stable, sterile, error free working environment.
With ordinary CDs and even MP3 CDs, if your main Citronic DJ CD deck were to fail, you simply whip out two £30 highstreet store CDwalkman devices and can utilise all you tracks as normal. This backup plan, which I know others on here have mentioned,costs £60 all in.
It would be easy in concept for msnufacturers of DJ hardware harddrive solutions to offer either one, or two sockets for external monitors, except you wouldnt get touchscreen emulation easily via the larger monitor.
| QUOTE (Gary @ Mar 22 2004, 06:34 PM) |
| Compared to PCs therefore, a hardware solution, like the Numark (and others to follow, no doubt) offer a more stable, sterile, error free working environment. |
Yep!
I think it doesn't matter what format you use, if it has a HARD DRIVE fitted then there is always a problem of it crashing, locking up.
The Numark HD unit did exactly this at PLASA on Day one.
SKY+ crashes now and then (40gb Hdd inside it)
One thing I think Numark will discover over time, is that when they start selling the HD units to the Joe Public DJs, who are technical luddites, and soon forget it's a Hard Drive based unit.. imagine how many damaged Hard Drives there might be when these DJs start throwing the gear about as some do.
You have to admit for every 1 DJ who takes extreme care with their equipment, there will be 3 others who don't give a
If they then buy delicate "computer component" based systems, how long will it be before thye are inopperable.
I know of a DJ who can break any amplifier within 3 months of it being manufacturerd... how he does this I have no idea... it must be the way he handles, uses and abuses them.
As DJ equipment becomes more technically advanced it also at the same time becomes that bit more fragile...
Drop DJ gear in the 70's . 80's pretty sure it;s gonna work when you plug it in, can you say the same for most of today's equipment..?
All the lower end products such as skythis, skythat, etc... drop them and they smash like crystal (I would imagne.. I don't own any of them, but have repaired plenty)
The Numark HD unit did exactly this at PLASA on Day one.
SKY+ crashes now and then (40gb Hdd inside it)
One thing I think Numark will discover over time, is that when they start selling the HD units to the Joe Public DJs, who are technical luddites, and soon forget it's a Hard Drive based unit.. imagine how many damaged Hard Drives there might be when these DJs start throwing the gear about as some do.
You have to admit for every 1 DJ who takes extreme care with their equipment, there will be 3 others who don't give a
If they then buy delicate "computer component" based systems, how long will it be before thye are inopperable.
I know of a DJ who can break any amplifier within 3 months of it being manufacturerd... how he does this I have no idea... it must be the way he handles, uses and abuses them.
As DJ equipment becomes more technically advanced it also at the same time becomes that bit more fragile...
Drop DJ gear in the 70's . 80's pretty sure it;s gonna work when you plug it in, can you say the same for most of today's equipment..?
All the lower end products such as skythis, skythat, etc... drop them and they smash like crystal (I would imagne.. I don't own any of them, but have repaired plenty)
| QUOTE (HeadlineDJ @ Nov 16 2004, 11:09 PM) |
| I think it doesn't matter what format you use, if it has a HARD DRIVE fitted then there is always a problem of it crashing, locking up. |
With a dedicated, specific use, set of commands, a hard drive based CD-deck would have considerably less reason to lock up than a PC or laptop running a commercial, off-the-shelf, enough-commands-in-it-for-everyone, type operating system.
The harddrives in either product have exactly the same chance of suffering the same hard-drive related problems eg: crashed heads, geometry failure etc. The potential for software conflicts is considerably less in a dedicated unit however.
My moneys still in its account for a CD-deck with harddrive combination.
I'm not expecting anything for at least a year, though.
| QUOTE |
| The "Why not" for me would be a lack of trust in being able to resolve an issue on a PC or Laptop. Ive no doubt that a backup harddrive, attached to a laptop, mirroring everything thats on the laptops internal drive will offer you a workaround that night simply by you pointing the DJ software at E: drive, instead of C: drive... However its the non harddrive related errors and hardware hiccups Eg: wont boot, reboots, hanging etc that any PC can suffer from, and will do, the more applications that are installed (or even worse running). |
I'm with Gary here. In a mission critical environment, the SIMPLE solution is one that will have less problems than the complex one. I have trialled various PC solutions to DJing, and none of them have come close to a dedicated piece of hardware yet. When a dedicated piece of hardware fails, you simply switch to another one.
Doubtless, we will all be using some form of computer in the future, but for me, the systems have to evolve a little more (both hardware and software) before I switch over. I am trying all these out at home by the way, just not live!
I applaude Numark for pioneering this product. I played with it at PLASA and it's obviously early days for its life. Everyone else will doubtless follow with their own versions.
Personally, I'm waiting for a dvd player which plays MP3 DVDs - imagine, your entire collection on half a dozen DVDs!! So, who will be first to market then??
I have not much time for people who think exploring and exploiting new media and hardware is 'cheating'. Open your eyes and learn, exciting times are ahead...
So, who semi-agrees with a quarter of what I said half way down a third of this thread
Not half!
sort of
Hmmm 
a bit there !
The DJ Mp3 player looks good but their quote about the "a DJ's entire music collection on a HDD" erm..... NOPE! i have only seen this unit with 40Gb Hard drive.
I use Ots and already have 60Gb of music and i still havent finnished putting all my cd's on it !! i'm not even half way!
However... if the cd trays can read mp3 cd's there is a use for this as backup to a PC based DJ.... I currently use a DVD player with MP3 player built in. DVD players have come down in price now, and many will play MP3, you can get one for around £40 and is an ideal backup to your PC system. Ok, so you still have to carry cd's around, but nowhere near as many! But when they can read MP3 on a DVD i want one !
a bit there !The DJ Mp3 player looks good but their quote about the "a DJ's entire music collection on a HDD" erm..... NOPE! i have only seen this unit with 40Gb Hard drive.
I use Ots and already have 60Gb of music and i still havent finnished putting all my cd's on it !! i'm not even half way!
However... if the cd trays can read mp3 cd's there is a use for this as backup to a PC based DJ.... I currently use a DVD player with MP3 player built in. DVD players have come down in price now, and many will play MP3, you can get one for around £40 and is an ideal backup to your PC system. Ok, so you still have to carry cd's around, but nowhere near as many! But when they can read MP3 on a DVD
i want one !
I pressume people with the hdcd are not copying their cds to mp3 as per BPI rules
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