I was just wondering tonight whether I am an easy touch or not?
I do regular nights -Sun Mon Tues and Wed. M/T/W are all at the same local venue;the Sun one means travelling 45 miles.
It's 7-30 to 10-30 each night but I am not playing all night. It's roughly half playing, half teaching and dancing.
My question to the forum is what would its members NOT work for less than.
I am not bothered about what you would expect to be paid just what would you would not work for less than.

I would work for free for the right work conditions and how much enjoyment i would get doing it. its such a hard question to answer really.

I enjoy doing the gigs but hell NO-not for free
I need to keep my wife and child in clothes food and holidays.

I think this one has to be answered in line with what you would usually charge.
So what would your normal price be, do you have to take your own gear, do you have to set lighting up, and if it leaves your Friday and Saturdays free it might be a good filler. But yes it has to be worthwhile.
So, taking into account travel time etc what would the fee work out as an hourly rate.
Hope some of this makes sense and maybe gives you some guidlines.

And to answer the straight question, I would generally not work for less than £150 which is what I charge for a kids disco.

Adults - generally I wouldn't do anything under £250 - but would look to move if it was regular and not Friday Saturday.



Vinnie

A very hard question to ask. Do you want to be out all those nights? What you have to look at is that if you are, and then on a friday/saturday/sunday too, is it worth it when it comes down to paying the tax at the end of the year? Residencies usually keep a very good record of the dj.. so no matter how creative your accountant, you have got to make sure that you will actually earn a few quid - with a residency offering numerous nights per week, the same dj each and every night of the week, its very easy for mr tax man to check out. If you enter into it, make sure you dont end up paying tons back in tax.

Karen has a very good point. Some people can be creative with regard to Tax & Book Keeping when it comes to cash-in-hand work. I'm not condoning this, or saying that all D.J's forgot to put certain transactions down on paper, but that it is a fact. However residencies are very easy to check up on especially those which keep paperwork.

If you are working for peanuts, then work out a "deal" with the venue where they pay the tax on the amount paid, for you - as an alternative to hiking up your price?. This way you'll be getting slightly more, without forcing an actual increase on them and appearing uncompetitive.

Certainly a weeknight, and a 10.30 finish should warrant a small discount from your usual weekend rates. But don't work for nothing, and don't put up with anybody who expects you to!.

Some D.J's use weeknight cash in hand work, to offset their weekly overheads, Cd Buying etc, and then the lucrative work that they do at the weekend is technically all profit.

Judging by the replies so far it would seem that I am indeed an easy touch.
The truth of the matter is that the couple who I play the music for have to hire the venue at quite a high rate and quite frankly if I charged them half my normal fee they would be in debt.We have been going for about 15 months now and I am the only one who has made any money out of it.They are trying to build it up into a business and it is taking time:and they are only just beginning to reap any rewards for the time and effort they have put in.
I suppose they could do the job without me but they like to have a dj so that they can concentrate on the teaching.
To answer your questin Vinnie; I just have to take my player,amp and some cd's (not all my cd's),we use the venues speakers and we set it up on a table.It's not a full set up I am really just supplying the bare essentials for playing the tracks that they dance to.

Not to be taken literally...

On the subject of 'fair price', if, say, for example, a client books a function suite for a Wedding, in a hotel for £400+, or hires a river-boat for £600+ for a private party, should the 'entertainer' drop his or her fee to accommodate the client?

I'm not at all knocking the 'offset' work, more the weekend work.

In cases where the entertainer is happy to accommodate clients - there can be little argument. It's the win, win, win scenario perhaps?!

I know what's been said already, but if you can see where I'm going with this, it seems to me that the 'entertainer' is percepted and expected to be flexible with fees!
reducuctio ad absurdum


Imagine the client who pays out a first-class top rate fee to a professional entertainer for a lavish Wedding with 150+ guests, but hunts thru the Yellow Pages to book a hot-dog seller to do the catering - 3 years in advance.

Of course the other way to look at this is if you 'enjoy' working weeknights and the fees are low but you cover your bills. Then what you earn at weekends could become 'lost' as should Hector come calling you state quite rightly "who on earth would want to work all week AND weekends, even I like a couple of nights off a week"!!

(Not that I would encourage or condone this course of action)

Spin

Hi Trev,
It looks like it's not too much work, and you relly enjoy it?
Another question is have you actually been able to get any work from this for proper gigs? If not are you able to use this to promote yourself a bit more, would the people you're working for put your flyers or cards in the stuff they either send out or give out, it might be a good promotional tool?
Just a thought,

Vinnie

Trev,

I wouldn't really call you a soft touch, however it is possible to be TOO HELPFUL, to the point where you can suffer because of your generosity to others . I learnt last year that you can often put yourself and your business out to assist others, but very rarely is the favour returned , only you know these people personally, but I what I would say is, don't be taken for a ride.

It was mentioned in a seperate topic, that when starting, if a business isn't viable then it shouldn't continue. Very few business make a profit in the first year or so, but if this couple aren't making money from their venture, or profits aren't slowly increasing with time then they should look to other ways of saving / making money?, perhaps moving to a smaller or cheaper venue?, increasing their admission / teaching fees, serving half time refreshments etc.

A local voluntary group I know of once saved money by sharing hire time with another group. For instance one group hired the hall from 6pm - 8pm and the other group needed it from 8pm - 10pm. By moving the day of the event to the same day, they saved money by one group simply hiring the hall from 6PM - 10PM and then sharing the cost 50/50

Speculate to accumulate!

If this is your only occupation, then you really cant afford to do budget work- you have got to make a living after all.

If it is not your full time occupation, then you are probably doing it for fun - if you are doing it for fun then as long as you cover any personal expenses and you enjoy it - do it!

I support what crispy has said about doing favours! I stopped giving discounts to anyone (except immediate family) - one way out for anyone who encounters this problem, is to tell them your fee... and then tell them that obviously they are not obliged to book you - and if they are looking for a disco below your budget you could offer them some numbers. This means that you will get your full fee should they still want to book you, tells them that you are not going to discount for them and even helps them find another dj!

Actually, I have to correct myself here.. in some circumstances, I do go out for less than my normal fee... for instance, if I was sitting at home at 8pm having just got in from a kids party, the car was loaded and I had a panic call from a b&g whose dj hadnt turned up - I would get there very quick.... and do it for the same amount as the cowboy was going to do it for. I would hate to cash in on anyones misfortune. Believe me, this goes down really well, - I have done it a couple of times in my career and I have been repaid tenfold!

mmm, interesting subject.

I must admit i have a problem charging people who i know for anything. I tend to be the kind of person who would give things for nothing rather than cash in. Thing is, like someone mentioned earlier, this is not always appreciated by all. I know i need to get more tough and start charging for some of the stuff i do.

At first i started just djing at friends parties for free as i enjoyed it, but now i have collected more gear and invested money, people have become to expect the same thing for free. I'm sure they don't appreciate the amount of time and effort it takes to laod all the car up with the gear etc....

The do i have in a couple of weeks is somthing similar to this. The friend of a friends mum has no money and a single mum who wants to throw a 21st party for her daughter. SHe works quite hard and cannot afford a proper dj etc. And i suppose i am not classed as a proper dj, more of a hobby dj. Not saying i wouldn't like to start doign more cause i would. Last time i did somethign silimar for free i used my home amp and ended up blowing it. Believe me i ended up totally out of pocket and there were no offers of anything to put towards it...

anyway the point i am trying to make is that i think we should make something out of it, but it is not always that easy if you a bit "soft" like me (for the want of a better word!). I think i am getting better though but still got a way to go. This time i have charged the family £50 - prob what i would pay to hire some gear. I'm not exactly making any money out of it, but as i have already agreed to do 4 this year, it goes someway to pay for my new amp n speakers.

I think i will try out the suggestion slips with my number on etc and see if anyone ends up taking them with them and then get in touch. I suppose its a true test of whether you're any good or whether people just have you cause yer free! I dunno.....

i was told years ago that there are no friends in business so when somebody i know asks for a quote i add £25 to my normal fee and tell them thats the normal fee but as friends will knock off £25(ie to the normal fee),they think im a nice guy,i get the job and everyones happy!

But I give a reciept for everything I do, this way everybody has my contact details

And don't forget, the inland revenue, have a book - the bible. It lists every form of work, and how much it should pay for an area. if you don't keep proper records you will be taxed, by their bible. And the "going Rate" for your area is NOT what another DJ tells you. I learn't the hard way, many years ago, When I got taxed, £3k on £1,200 income - that makes bizz highly un profitable. If you advertise anywhere, including shop windows the IR know you excist.

I can understand Trev being personaly involved in this job,its kind of generating a future income by helping them out,if he knows that by raising his price they will stop using him\go under then its understandable.I gave a lower price to a club on quiet nights on the agreement that if numbers went up then so did my wage.It worked, i also note that trev works on nights which arent normally the easiest nights to sell for a dj.

Thanks for all your replies.
The couple I work (for)with have a 5 year plan which seems to be coming on fine.
They have built a broad base of punters locally and are now beginning to go further afield.Their local venue as I said before is expensive but they are now trying out some cheaper venues so they will be making a bit more profit.I do believe that if their profit goes up enough to warrent it, so will my fees.If they put on special events or are asked to do private 'do's then they always use me and I get the going rate.
I must admit I do enjoy this modern jive business. It has got me some good work, a new interest and above all else some new friends.
Actually Vinnie it may look like not too much work but when you have to do a 'day' job, rush home for tea(we have dinner at midday in our house) get ready, go to the gig,come home late and then get up for work the next day it doesnt leave much time for family life;does it?
Then on my first night off (Thursday) wife and son-he's 9- go line-dancing.
Spin- tut tut tut!!!
Incidently do you think Hector keeps his eye on this forum?

This is a really interesting thread,

We had a hotel offer us 10 dates in December, they wanted us to do them for less than £100 each, we told them where to go and ended up taking several times what that would have given us for fewer dates.

They were however Wed/Thu/Fri nights and they had their own disco, so we would only have been djing, with no set up take down etc and only having to take our discs

What you have to ask is, do I enjoy this enough to give up my evenings, what cant I do becuase of it, will it lead to better things.

It does sound to me like an easy night, but we do hava a minimum and we wont leave the house for less than £150, some I know quote £70 for full disco, but you get what you pay for.....

Personally, if it were me and I hadnt got anything else that I wanted to do, I would £50 for three hours isnt bad.

But we only do Fri/Sat/Sun gigs as we have full time jobs, so I wouldnt want to take up mid week nights.