I have a problem with some equipment and want some advice

i buy all my gear from a local shop (15 miles away) as the guy is not only a old school friend but is one of the big players online and has some very good deals.

I recently picked up a set of 4 ledj par 64 cans for a good price however i have been plagued with problems.

I had to take 1 can back straight away as it had a very noisey transformer - 30 mile trip. Had to wait for a replacement then collect - 30 mile trip

After a couple of weeks i had to take 2 cans back as a load of led's went off (21 in one can!) - 30 mile trip.

I went to collect the replacements as they were out of stock - 30 mile trip - to find when i tested them in the shop they were faulty. last night I found that another can has some led's out which has happened within a week.

Now the retailer is nothing but supportive and full of apologies and has demanded the the distributor post replacements directly to me.

I have travelled 150 miles to have 1 working par can to date and am wondering if its time to draw the line. As i said the retailer is a friend and its not his fault, the distributor is just a distributor and its not his fault but i am the consumer who has paid a lot of money for defective goods.

Do i have the right to return the 4 cans and expect a full refund or am i to expect continuous replacements/repairs.

I cant emphasis the importance of local phyisical shops here!

Usually the consumer is expected to give the retailer a 'reasonable' opportunity to replace or repair faulty goods free of charge under any warranty.

The problem stems when it comes to considering what is 'reasonable'. However nobody should be expected to send back the goods more than a couple of times without the problem being rectified. You are well within your rights to demand a refund as it appears currently that the goods are not fit for the purpose to which they are intended.

Whether the shop is being 'good' about it or not is immaterial. IMO the retailer isn't playing fair as they have your money and you currently have a pile of useless tat, any retailer worth their salt would have either exchanged them for new replacements or refunded you by now. Your contract is with the retailer, and not the manufacturer, so their relationship with the manufacturer and whether they will get their money back is not your concern.

I think you need to leave sentiment of friendship aside and demand a refund, I guess this guy is just capitalising on your friendship to absolve him of his legal responsibility. Its not like he gave them to you for free, you still paid for them, therefore you are a consumer and protected under consumer law.

Thanks for that, its not the answer i wanted to hear but it is the right answer. I will see what arrives on my doorstep on monday and go from there. I believe i have given fair chance and many would not have been so patient.

Cheers

I understand. These types of situation are always difficult, and I reckon everyone reading this would have faced a similar situation where there is some loyalty in involved.

Personally though, I think any true friend would be pulling out the stops to recitify this matter, possibly over and above the effort put in for any other customer, because isn't that what friends do?.

To be honest, I've been stung myself in similar friendship loyalty situations to the point of bitterness and where I now hate seeing it happen to others, and now I keep business and friendships totally seperate

Let us know what happens on Monday.

Thought i would give an update on the situation. Last time i posted i was to recieve some new units which were sent directly to me. For a short time i had 4 fully functional lights. Another one went faulty shortly after and that was to be replace immediately.

However i have just had a month off for holidays etc and on the last occasion i used the lights they all worked. I plugged them in the other day after they had been sat on a shelf for 4 weeks and i was gobsmacked - all 4 lights had a fault (banks of 3leds off in different colours and areas).

Enough is enough and having a local shop was again usefull as i took them back and requested somethng else. I now have more led par cans from another manufacturer (probably from the same factory) with a led par can controller on the way.

Been offered a heafty discount in a way of compensation and can only praise the retailer and distributor for trying.

Lets hope this is the end!!!!!

Might be worth mentioning the product so others can avoid purchasing ?

Not at home at the moment so cant check the manufacturer but I have two of the Par cans and I have had the same problem. I have 4 stirville (think thats how its spelt) and they are secondhand and work fine.


Hi Boogie
Nik

Is it ok to do that - Moderator input please!

There aren't any so you might be waiting a while

As far as I can see, provided you are a customer and (previous) owner of these products then you can give accurate and factual reviews in relation to your experience as a consumer whether ownership has been positive or negative. That would include naming the product / brand

Maybe worth a post in the lighting review section of the forums Minty?

LEDJ PAR 64 - there - ive said it . please read the rest of this thred for all the info. despite the fault with these particular units, imo, led par cans are great and the manufacturer should not be judged on a faulty batch which they initially replaced then refunded.

Mine are badged ACME I think they might be the same model though

Nik

All from same distributor, prolight and probably from the same factory. Are yours the ACME visio as they are supposed to be far superior - the price tag suggests that

Hi Dave yes I think so. I purchased the more expensive ones out of the two. From what I have been told it is a quick soldering job in the back to put them right. My DJ shop will do it for me but its having the time to take them back at the moment.


Nik

Quite surprised that the pcb with the led arrays on can get quite warm - wonder if its a case of pcb expanding/contracting stress that can cause either hairline cracks to appear or dodgy dry joints to fail miserably... (more likely the latter - one led par I have had some really dodgy dry joints on it).

David

Not fit for purpose springs to mind if thats the case

LED's themselves use very little current but also operate at a low voltage. Usually they'll be connected in series on the PCB track or connected in banks in some way to allow them to run from slighter higher voltages, but there will be some form of step down voltage / constant current components present on the board, usually a fairly hefty ceramic or wirewound resistor or voltage regulator and this is where the heat can be generated.

I am sure there are also some LEDs that do get warm - thinking more of the 1watt and above LEDs though.

They do, and some of the more powerful 1w, 3w, 5w etc ones like those made by Luxeon, even have their own little heatsink on the back of the reflector unit.

But even these still run cool, when you compare them to the heat given off by a convetional 300W par56 lamp.

Unfortunately the LED market is also getting hit with inferior copies and cheaply and poorly designed and manufactured tat. I tried to replace, some outdoor marker lighting with LED based 3W GU10's to replace the existing current hungry 50W mains versions. Light output wasn't a big deal (which was a good job, because they were about as effective as a torch) however the reliability was pants, with all but one failing within the end of the following week.

They have since been replaced free of charge by the seller, and even then, one of the replacements tripped the mains RCD when it was swtiched on, so now i've got a refund and the lamps are in the wheelie bin recycling bin.

Still not impressed with this alternate lighting technology or how it compares / performs in real gig terms against its older halogen / discharge counterparts. I'm still waiting for somebody to provide pictures or a video showing genuine Halogen and LED versions of similar effects, working side by side so those considering these products can see how effective the LED effects are compared to their existing effects and whether there is any output difference.....and how much.

I can vouch for that

The trouble is that the technology is still relatively new and we wont get a full range of comparable lighting for a while yet. Its coming but at a much higher price.

250w acme scanner £125 or there abouts. total power consumption ???
led acme genesis scanner with 20w led £225 ish 57w of total power consumption

I do however like the low power consumption, low heat and weight but am fed up of the limited red green and blue effects.

Got my new american dj led par 64 pros today with an elation par can controller. will do a review after a bit of use - They all work out of the box which is a good start!!!!!

To be honest, i'm not really a green warrior and since i'm not paying the bill i'm not to concerned about the power consumption at the venue. When I see these venues lighting up trees in the name of decor at the backs of deserted car parks with batteries of floodlights consuming many KWH, I don't think the venues are really green orientated either.

What I am concerned with, is the fact that a lot of venues in my area are old venues and have a rustic and very dark appearence, from wood paneled walls and oak beams to the dark stained wooden dancefloor. Add to that the smattering of exit signs and the odd house light and the door to the brightly lit bar opening and clsoing every 2 minutes, i'm not having the same totally dark environment to work in, as opposed to those youtube videos which are nearly all in total darkness and shot under ideal situations.

I've seen videos of lightshows using LED lights shot by members on here from time to time, but what is missing, is a lighting rig which has both halogen and LED units operating side by side. Only then will this give a true comparison in a real life situation and allow those still pondering to make an informed choice.

What I personally, don't want to be do, is to replace my entire, perfectly working and maintained halogen light rig on a whim, purely to save a venue about 25p in electricity and find that its actually darker than my existing show and have to buy more of them to create the same level of lighting as I had before. I see that as a step backwards.

Of course i'm also aware, from reading threads like this, and the some 'not as bright as I expected' reviews around the internet that LED lighting is still a bit of a minefield. But again, this is why i'm reading with interest and learning from those who have paid the money and are doing the reviewing (and taking the risks, LOL)

The power issue is not about cost exclusively but more a power supply issue, i know i can safely run my entire rig from 1 outlet and in some cases run a very long exrension lead where no sockets are available. I agree that promo videos are shot in perfect rooms and to be honest without the dreaded smoke machines/foggers some of these effects would be nothing.

I have an acme miracled and 2 250 w halogen gob flowers and without a doubt the gobo's put the miracled to shame in overall brightness but the individual beams are very bright. The big difference for me is that upon shutdown the miracled is stone cold whilst the gobos are the last thing i knock down. same goes with par cans not forgetting the varation i get from the led versions as opposed to traditional cans. The output is significantly lower than a 300 par lamp.

In the future we will be forced to use low power alternatives considering the recent move on 100w light bulbs.

I dont think glastonbury will half as impressive with a bunch of 20w led's, what would the prodigy do?