I have read several posts regarding smoke machines and all the arguements for and against. Thats water under the bridge. Venues are reluctant to enter into discussions about hazers etc and to be honest are not bothered. For them a total ban is easier.

What i would like is some pro active coments/advice on the issue of lighting. Here are 2 contrasting situations but with one commom denominator, a smoke machine.

Thursday night - School Prom.
Not a big venue so the light rig consisted of 2 scanners, 2 invincibled, 1 miracled and some par 56 cans for a colour wash. Smoke machine permited. With the lights positioned carefully and the smoke machine rattling out all night the light show was fantasctic.

Friday - 70's night
Simular sized venue same light rig but sadly on arrival we were told smoke machines were now banned as, quote the landlord "some idiot filled the place with smoke last week and set all the alarms off twice". How dismal the same light show looked from the audience angle.

So what is a possible solution for lighting. Without smoke we need a wow factor from our lighting.
For me my traditional par 56 lamps will get used more often. Althought basic they do provide an effective solution with a pair of 250w gogo's. Alternativly my new par 64 led cans with a pair of 250w gobo's where power is an issue.


Any thoughts? Are light screens to be reinstated?

Personally i have two martin mini macs that immediately become a pain in the rear when i cant use smoke. Their brightness then just annoys everyone they point at. Alot of the time i just use LED Pars as they are bright and wash the area.
However i have been looking at things like this
Small and compact to carry and potentially visually impressive.

Things like that would also work with the new style light screens like these

However i think there is still a need for the moving gobo effects but maybe to animate the floors or walls instead of relying on their beams. This is what i end up using my macs for when i cant use smoke.

Also the power of a mirror ball with decent dmx spots cant be uderestimated for visual impressiveness.

If I was asked to do a retro-night then maybe I'd hire some disco light screens. They're still popular with some services but I feel Plasma screens, etc have stolen their thunder.

Best light I have seen without smoke is the Martin Ego 01's.

I have also done a gig without ANY lighting, and everyone still had a great time!

Good Point!.

Is anybody actually getting regular complaints from clients in relation to NOT being able to use a smoke machine?.

To be honest from my own prospective, I can't remember when the last time was, that I was asked by a client whether I even owned one and such requests seem to be resigned to the history books along with such requests as 'Do you have a mirror ball?' . Usually the only time it is mentioned (away from DJ Forums) is in a venue when a manager / owner greets me, and specifically tells me not to use one.

Do clients REALLY care?, i'm hard pushed to find any mention of smoke on wedding forums and similar places where the general public would discuss DJ's and entertainment amongst each other. Surely if it was that vital people would be asking each other for recommendations on the size and effectiveness of a DJ's smoke machine, rather than how good they are?.

Yes, its a given that we all like to make our lighting (whatever it may consist of) to be as effective as possible, but for the next few months mother nature is going to put a big fat hole in our pretty lightshows, when it stays light until 9.30 / 10pm meaning that the first few hours of most gigs are going to spent potentially playing with bright evening sunlight flooding into the venue, a situation where ANY lightshow is going to be pretty much rendered ineffective.

If you think about it logically - during the summer season do clients insist that we don't start the disco until it goes dark, purely because our lightshow will not be as effective as it could be until after 10pm?, or is the client indifferent to the fact, and asks us to start at 7, 8 or 9pm as usual?. On this basis alone, I really don't think they are THAT interested, lights are nice, but its not the MAIN reason why we are booked, otherwise we simply wouldn't be asked to be there or to start the disco until darkness had fallen .

With the warm balmy summer evenings rapidly approaching, and hot weather already forecast (27c in the South) for next Friday, such a sudden heatwave is going to be a shock to the system and I think the biggest challenge for most mobile Dj's between now and September, will be keeping people INSIDE of the venue and INTERESTED in the disco, regardless of lighting or smoke!



Yes, those inflatable, illuminated neon condoms do look the business, I would imagine they are pretty much unique as well, meaning something a bit different.

I think lighting is evolving a little bit, the market has become saturated with cloned effects which largely all do exactly the same thing. This is perhaps why, some DJ's are tackling it from a different quarter and are starting to incorporate flame effects, colour changers and LED based systems and even the modern version of the retro oil wheel protector is making a come back with some roadshows.

Whilst I don't get asked for smoke machines, I am finding that some clients nowadays are asking about subtle more ambient lightshows, colour schemes for marquees using uplighters and LED systems are also becoming pretty popular too for Wedding DJ's.

Maybe our clients needs are changing? listen to them, they are the voice of our business and represent our future.

I've never been into lightshows - don't get me wrong I'd love to have a full discotheque rig - but I just got completely cheesed off setting up four or five non-dmx'd lights. Eventually, all I took out was a Brokenswing and two Soundlab moonflowers - which I only used for the slowies. No smoke, no UV, no controller, no laser, no strobe and never, ever any lightscreens! I used to get repeat bookings, I used to do 'big' weddings (200 people) and I never had anyone complain or moan not even when I did prom nights.

For occassional events I really don't think anyone cares that much. I think it's when you play a venue where the regulars will compare your show to the guys from last week that you'll come across a problem.

Make of this what you will, my most popular hired items from the general public are pro disco lights and rigs, the most popular items hired by fellow DJs are the larger PA systems and winch stands/trussing, least popular items. lasers. Oddest hires, a smoke M/C to a TV film crew (you would think they would bring their own) and a strobe to an old folks home to simulate an air-raid at a VE party.

Surely if the show you put on is more effective by using whatever things we can then we should strive to do that.

The client may not say anything to you about your lighting/sound or whatever but the room may be full of potential clients and it would be a shame if those jobs were lost because we couldn't be bothered to try and make the most of the effects we have paid money for, and the client has paid to see!

On a slightly different tack,can anybody remember when there was a distinct difference between a "mobile disco" and a "mobile roadshow"

The attitudes of the people running those types of operations then seem to be being portrayed now do you think?

And which catergory would people put themselves in now I wonder?

Just my thoughts you understand and ncertainly not designed to upset anyone or get anybodys back up!

Just out of interest, how many Dj's actively ASK their client or involve them in relation to what they require (or would like) in relation to lighting and / or special effects, and spend time discussing the lighting aspect as much as the music?. Surely its important to get their feedback?, non of us have a crystal ball and personal requirements can vary from one person to the next.

Potentially, with say, 150 gigs per year for the average mobile, that is 150 clients, and therefore 150 opinions and requirement diversity. How can 'one size' possibly fit all in relation to lighting requirements and tastes anymore than one playlist would fit all?.

Seems to me, that if the time is taken to ask the question, and the relevant requirement supplied, there can be absolutely no way that the client could complain. I ask the question and i've never had any complaints.

Good point,it would however be nice if clients didn,t see the pictures then book the full show,and then moan because you can't fit it into the venue or use it because there is not enough power etc!

I am sure they think that we make these things up sometimes,
ie, x-amount of space or x-amount of power.

don't you have those requirement(s) stated clearly in your T&C's?. What would happen if you turned up at a marquee and found a 150m two core 5A extension lead ready and waiting to be plugged into?. Don't mock, i've been left 10A orange twin core flymo leads to plug into before now, along with a variety of other cheap and cheerful means of power transfer

It's just the same as clients sending you a request list with 200 tracks on it, and then moaning because 140 of them don't get played. However if you point out right from the start that logistically it is only possible to incorporate 20, 30 or 40 tracks then they have no recourse to moan if you only managed to play a limited number of their 200 track list which was duly supplied.

Unfortunately in business the onus always does seem to be on the service provider to lead the conversation and ask the relevant questions in order to be in a position to make an informed decision and discuss any potential difficulties or special requirements, its also common sense to confirm it all too, because clients DO take liberties, and some people out there DO exploit an opportunity or 'change their requirements' to suit if the possibility should arise.

Lets take booking a taxi as a classic example.

Mrs Smith rings for a taxi to take herself and her 11 friends to bingo. She contacts 'Fasta Cabs' and arranges for a taxi to arrive at her address at 7.30

'Fasta Cabs' operators don't bother to ask how many passengers are travelling, and routinely send a Vectra Saloon to her address. Is this Mrs Smith's fault for not automatically volunteering the information because it wasn't asked, or 'Fasta Cab's' responsibility for not asking the question and making themselves aware of the fact regarding how many passengers were travelling at that time and so making an informed decision on the type and size vehicle to send, based on the answer.

In the above situation, 'Fasta Cab's' have probably just made an assumption and figured out that a Vectra Saloon would be big enough for Mrs Smith and her party, because it would be big enough for 95% of the other bookings they received for that night. In this case they were wrong, and Mrs Smith, when the car arrived, would probably have complained.

Had 'Fasta Cab's' taken the trouble and about 10 seconds to ask a simple question and make themselves aware of the facts, then a suitable mini bus would have arrived, Mrs Smith would be happy and would probably use them again, and no embarrassment or inconvenience for either party.

Its all relative, and in the larger picture, actually asking the question, even the simple ones and then confirming the facts, would ensure that the client got what they had booked and would lessen the possibility of any complaint and would protect you from any further action, if they should. After all Deejays are not being hired by other Deejays, they are being booked by the general public, who ultimately do not see the service from the same prospective or angle as another DJ would, for example and neither do they have the expectations of other deejays or the same 'requirements'

In addition, if the client wants 20kw of lighting at their marquee, then discussing this at the booking stage and pointing out both verbally and in writing that they would need an electrician to install a proper distribution board or the hire of a suitable generator, and so your required 86A supply would be ready and waiting for you, surely is routine.

However if we automatically attend every function with 20kw of lighting, and turned up to the marquee automatically expecting a mains supply capable of suppling 86 amps and found a 13A extension lead, then this would be our fault entirely, for not making our requirements clear to the client at the time of booking. Clients don't have crystal balls and neither do we, thats why its vital to communicate and both parties actively discuss THEIR requirements in detail, to ensure that the event runs smoothly.

However its when both parties are left to make assumptions, and details aren't discussed in any depth or confirmed, and conclusions are drawn that disappointments occur and complaints are made - by either party.

You seem to be assuming that these things wouldn't be pointed out at the preliminary meeting prior to accepting the booking.

The point I am making is that even when you do point out the requirements and install them on your contract information very often the client will think "oh yeah he wants this much space and power,he'll get what he's given"

Then proceed to complain that they haven't got what they have booked!

Drives me nuts.

We offer our customers the a choice of 20 different light shows from the very basic to a mobile night club.
We go through all the options with the clients regarding the venue and what show would fit in..
If the function is at a venue we hadn't worked at before we would do a site visit (even if this meant travelling 200 - 300 miles)
Customer satisfaction is our goal as 99% of our work is from word of mouth from guests that attend our functions.
We are in a slightly different game as a production company, but surely us as the supplier should know the venues to which we work as regards to power supply. I know that if we have a function at the Grovernor that there are both 16 & 32 amp 240v supplies there, as well as 415v three phase, so we would take the necessary distribution boards and adaptors with us.

The point that Andy made about the Mobile disco and Roadshow is a classic example of 2 different styles of presentation but both are mobile with the Roadshow being larger in PA and lighting in some cases. The Roadshow seems to be out of fashion these days maybe since the Radio 1 Roadshow was defunct but thats another debate.

Oh yes let's have a debate about the Radio 1 Roadshow and its DJ's,good bad?
I can see another thread in the making!

Both of these comments are subjective - the way you word them makes it sound like more lights is better..? I take issue with that and I presume the client you refer to as well as the room full of potential clients could, too. Some of my best gigs have taken place in the darkest of venues.

As a dancer, I prefer the dance floor to be filled with a few flashing lights and no more. As a guest sitting at a table I don't want any lights in my eyes. As a horny teenager (which I used to be 20+ years ago!!) I prefer the room as dark as possible. That is the ethos on how I have set-up my lights for the last decade and it has served me well during that time.

Like you, Andy, these are just my thoughts that aren't intended to hurt or upset!

Very intresting reading....thank you. Im not in the 'wedding market' at the moment but the information will come in very handy as i develope my business.

However weddings aside i will now discuss my rig in more detail with every client even if it is a regular venue.

last night was a prime example. It was a 65th birthday and when booked i was asked if i had lights (strange question to ask a mobile disco, saying that i have been asked that a lot recently) I was told that it was a mixed audience from grandchildren to wrinklies, and music from the 50's to modern pop and RnB was requested. I was told it was a fair sized room with a stage and pleanty of power. Up to 100 guests

From this information i took a pair of 350w cabs, 2 led par 64, 2 acme invicibled, 2 scanners, 1 acme miracled and 2 gobos to cover every angle.

This is how it turned out. Ceiling to low for proper light rig as stage was 2ft high so had to improvise a bit. Audience was in the majority 60 and over and i was told to keep the music down and turn off the flashing lights. I wound up playing background music for nealry the entire evening with a brief 1 hour slot to attempt people to the floor which i failed dismally. Afterwards the client thanked me very much and stated that they wern't bothered in dancing and just wanted some music playing. I was booked to 1am and the majority left before 12.

What was bizzare is that i took a provisional booking for a wedding as they were impressed

Thanks again for the input

Obviously the client will tell you prior to the function what type of lighting/sound they want.

Lots of lights/sound or a more "quaint" show.

Whatever the situation calls for I will always make the job happen if it is possible and advise the client in my opinion what will work best in a given situation.

At the end of the day it is the clients decision,and if you think that doing what the client insists on is a mistake you always have the option not to take the job!