Full Version: What the best allround combination for a pa setup
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Please reply with your thoughts. Price should be low as possible with high quality . Please suggest amp and speaker combo.
There are thousands of possible combinations of a pair of 300w RMS speakers and amp. If you can give us an idea of your budget that might help narrow it down.
My budget is around £500
Thats a little low for buying new equipment but i will have a look around for you. You may be better trying to buy second hand If you want to get a true 600w RMS with half decent quality for that money.
Soundlab MOSFET Sp800 Amp (2x 400W RMS @ 4 Ohms)
Idex (Ohm Manufactured) 15-300 - 15" Bass + Horn Driver (not piezo) - 300W RMS @ 8 Ohms
(2x) 3m Speaker leads
Total:- £485.00 + Free 3 Working day delivery
Idex (Ohm Manufactured) 15-300 - 15" Bass + Horn Driver (not piezo) - 300W RMS @ 8 Ohms
(2x) 3m Speaker leads
Total:- £485.00 + Free 3 Working day delivery
What is the quality like of the amp and speakers compared to KAM and other makes. Also watts the 8 ohm rating of the amplifier per channel
Well i'm obviously biased so ignore me, but I will say that...
Don't be under any illusion and compare £300 speakers with £1000 ones, since you get what you pay for, like comparing a Mini to a Porsche
but there are some perfectly adequate speakers out there that will do the job, and your sound system is only as strong as the weakest link in the chain, so don't buy a £2000 P.A system and connect it to your Realistic 2 Channel mixer .
The Idex speakers are one of the best around for this price range, being 300 Watts RMS and manufactured by the Ohm Company, who also make the popular "RWS" range of speakers, in other words - reliable.
No manufacturers use components made exclusively for themselves, and open up one amplifier and you'll often find the same output transistors used in one amp, are used in amps from another manufacturer!. MOSFET Amps tend to be more stable and better protected than cheaper Bi-Polar types.
The SP800 offers exactly the same quality as any other MOSFET amplifier in the same price range.
All figures quoted are RMS, I don't believe in using misleading Peak or Maximum figures to sell stuff, since you get what you pay for. I am always concerned about manufacturers who tend to bolster the technical figures by quoting non RMS ratings, since its like passing something off as being something its not doing this reminds me of Car Audio Equipment and Hi-Fi products and its about time that manufacturers started using the more accurate RMS ratings.
Although 400 Watt Max, looks better than 175 Watt RMS Continuous when on paper or in a glossy brochure- in the real world you are still only getting a 175W product!.
Don't be under any illusion and compare £300 speakers with £1000 ones, since you get what you pay for, like comparing a Mini to a Porsche
but there are some perfectly adequate speakers out there that will do the job, and your sound system is only as strong as the weakest link in the chain, so don't buy a £2000 P.A system and connect it to your Realistic 2 Channel mixer .The Idex speakers are one of the best around for this price range, being 300 Watts RMS and manufactured by the Ohm Company, who also make the popular "RWS" range of speakers, in other words - reliable.
No manufacturers use components made exclusively for themselves, and open up one amplifier and you'll often find the same output transistors used in one amp, are used in amps from another manufacturer!. MOSFET Amps tend to be more stable and better protected than cheaper Bi-Polar types.
The SP800 offers exactly the same quality as any other MOSFET amplifier in the same price range.
All figures quoted are RMS, I don't believe in using misleading Peak or Maximum figures to sell stuff, since you get what you pay for. I am always concerned about manufacturers who tend to bolster the technical figures by quoting non RMS ratings, since its like passing something off as being something its not doing this reminds me of Car Audio Equipment and Hi-Fi products and its about time that manufacturers started using the more accurate RMS ratings.
Although 400 Watt Max, looks better than 175 Watt RMS Continuous when on paper or in a glossy brochure- in the real world you are still only getting a 175W product!.
Whats the 8 ohm rating of the amplifier per channel . Also should i match the amp 8ohm value with the speakers rms value is this correct and is there any disvantages to doing that.
The Sp800 delivers 250W RMS into 8 ohms, therefore using a 300W RMS 8 ohm Loudspeaker gives you a margin of safety.
You're in safe hands with Chris, but if you are shopping around, be warey of how different places advertise the impedance (Ohms) of their gear.
Some places happily switch between 4 ohms and 8 ohms in a most confusing (or possibly deliberately misleading) manner.
For example, an advert for "1000 watt amplifier...Now only £........" could be for an amplifier which offers 1000 watts into 4 ohms, which is only (around) 500 watts, when used into 8 ohm speakers. I've even seen some places quoting at 2ohms, which is even worse, since 1000watts at 2ohms, is only 500watts at 4 ohms, or 250watts at 8ohms.
Plus, for an amp to be able to reliably drive at 2ohm load all night, it would have to be one of the higher end amps, like QSC, and those, I suspect would be somewhat out of the price range which you're looking for currently.
Overall on your soundsystem, dont fall into the very common, newbie (or is it an age thing?) mistake, of being very, very bottom heavy in terms of speaker outputs. EG: 5000 watts of Bass, and 100 watts of midrange/topend. (OK, I've over exagerated there - I hope -
to get the point across).
However, for the budget which you're stating currently, you'll be looking at full-range speakers probably, so the "art" of matching the right amount of bass, with the right amount of top-end and mid-range will have already been done for you.
What I would say is this.
Unlike some audio gear, or lighting for that matter, speakers and amps are something which you can add to very easily later. EG: Add extra top-end, or add extra bass cabinettes, or even buy exactly the same £500 system again, to add to whatever you get this time, thereby doubling it, as you gig money starts coming in, and funds permit. So, if funds allow, go for something which you would feel happy "adding to" rather than trading in, when you're ready to expand.
Remember, in the mean time, IF you do get a gig at a huge local venue, you can always rent some extra sound gear for that one night.
Some places happily switch between 4 ohms and 8 ohms in a most confusing (or possibly deliberately misleading) manner.
For example, an advert for "1000 watt amplifier...Now only £........" could be for an amplifier which offers 1000 watts into 4 ohms, which is only (around) 500 watts, when used into 8 ohm speakers. I've even seen some places quoting at 2ohms, which is even worse, since 1000watts at 2ohms, is only 500watts at 4 ohms, or 250watts at 8ohms.
Plus, for an amp to be able to reliably drive at 2ohm load all night, it would have to be one of the higher end amps, like QSC, and those, I suspect would be somewhat out of the price range which you're looking for currently.
Overall on your soundsystem, dont fall into the very common, newbie (or is it an age thing?) mistake, of being very, very bottom heavy in terms of speaker outputs. EG: 5000 watts of Bass, and 100 watts of midrange/topend. (OK, I've over exagerated there - I hope -
to get the point across).However, for the budget which you're stating currently, you'll be looking at full-range speakers probably, so the "art" of matching the right amount of bass, with the right amount of top-end and mid-range will have already been done for you.
What I would say is this.
Unlike some audio gear, or lighting for that matter, speakers and amps are something which you can add to very easily later. EG: Add extra top-end, or add extra bass cabinettes, or even buy exactly the same £500 system again, to add to whatever you get this time, thereby doubling it, as you gig money starts coming in, and funds permit. So, if funds allow, go for something which you would feel happy "adding to" rather than trading in, when you're ready to expand.
Remember, in the mean time, IF you do get a gig at a huge local venue, you can always rent some extra sound gear for that one night.
Ah...remember too, you dont HAVE to run in Stereo. Especially once you get into Crossovered/Bi-amped systems.
You could still have a speaker either side of you, but just running mono.
Many bi-amped/crossover systems run Stereo sound for mid-range/top end, but Mono for Bass.
You could still have a speaker either side of you, but just running mono.
Many bi-amped/crossover systems run Stereo sound for mid-range/top end, but Mono for Bass.
Yes the Ohms vs Watts advertising is a real bugbear, I try and state whether the output is 4 or 8 ohms rating, but you can assume that the larger of the two figures is the 4 Ohm one.
QSC are being promoted widely by using the 2 Ohm figure and morally its wrong but the dealers are doing nothing illegal. For instance the QSC RMX series, see the RMX2450 and you'll immediately think, Hey! a 2x 1225W RMS Amplifier and it is correct, but that 1225W figure is into 2 ohms, and how many D.J's carry around 8x 8 ohm Speakers?
. So realistically if you take the 4 Ohm Figure you'll be getting a 2x 750W Amplifier or a 2x 500W Amplifier @ 8 ohms and again, its only as good as the speakers its driving and their spec!.
QSC are being promoted widely by using the 2 Ohm figure and morally its wrong but the dealers are doing nothing illegal. For instance the QSC RMX series, see the RMX2450 and you'll immediately think, Hey! a 2x 1225W RMS Amplifier and it is correct, but that 1225W figure is into 2 ohms, and how many D.J's carry around 8x 8 ohm Speakers?
. So realistically if you take the 4 Ohm Figure you'll be getting a 2x 750W Amplifier or a 2x 500W Amplifier @ 8 ohms and again, its only as good as the speakers its driving and their spec!.
What the capacity in terms of peeps for these speakers
| QUOTE (shevd @ Oct 30 2003, 04:25 PM) |
| What the capacity in terms of peeps for these speakers |
I get asked this soooo many times and it really is almost impossible to give a definitive answer with regard to any system.
So many factors play an important role in deciding this, such as the venue, the material that the venue is built from (brick, wood etc) the height of the ceiling, the venues acoustics, the layout of the venue, the heightof your speakers, the type of music playing etc etc, I could think of several more but you should get my point
.You may find that in one venue your system copes fine with 190 people, yet take it to another venue and you find that you are struggling to set up the EQ
, it's all down to the acoustics of the venue, and the D.J spending time to set up correctly and that doesn't include making smiley faces with your graphic EQ!.Sadly, Speaker manufacturers don't specify that when this speaker is used in combination with this Amp you'll be able to cover a venue with 300 people, because its just not possible.
I can give you a ball park figure based on experience from using and selling similar systems, and you should expect to be able to cover a venue with upto 200 people, this may go to 230 or 250 but so many factors play a part it is impossible to give an accurate figure.
Don't forget you can add a pair of bass bins or another pair of suitably rated 8 ohm speakers to your system to lower the amp to 4 ohms, the extra power may not seem much but when adding an extra pair of speakers it does make quite a big difference. Something to consider in the future if you find yourself doing very large venues. Besides it's not all about blasting your audience out in any case, music should be at a comfortable level to listen to whilst Guests are still able to talk to each other at the back of the room.
I hate adding stuff to peoples shoping lists, since people jump to the (wrong) conclusion that i'm out to sell them an additional item that they don't need
. However ANY system large or small can benefit from adding a sound enhancer between the Mixer and Amplifier(s). This is a device which adds a spatial effect to the music which enhances the overall sound level, making it more pleasant and natural to listen to. It also increases the bass response without any mass increase in power from the Amplifier, so the bass sounds tighter without eating up headroom.If you use MP3's, either on a PC or burned as a CD, then one of these is well worth considering but all systems can benefit from adding one.
Where can i purchase one of them from and how much would it cost
is each speaker 300 watts rms or are they combined 300rms also where can i buy a sound enhancer from and how much are they
| QUOTE |
| MOSFET Amps tend to be more stable and better protected than cheaper Bi-Polar types. |
That's debateable.
Most of the proffesional tour grade higher quality amps are all bi-polar in design: QSC, Crest, Crown, Peavey.
Mosfets produce more heat per watt compared to bi-polars therefore requiring more cooling by usually having twin fans (Yamaha, Matrix). And you'll find that the cheaper low grade amps come in both MOSFET and BI-polar designs.
R.E:- The Mosfet vs Bipolar Debate
The following is an extract taken from the Hitachi Newsletter (Oct 2002) supplied to the Electronics industry and targetted at Amplifier Manufacturers. Since Hitachi continue to supply both Bi-Polar 2N series and Mos-Fets I wouldn't think that there would be any bias to any particular type purely based on sales.
The following is an extract taken from the Hitachi Newsletter (Oct 2002) supplied to the Electronics industry and targetted at Amplifier Manufacturers. Since Hitachi continue to supply both Bi-Polar 2N series and Mos-Fets I wouldn't think that there would be any bias to any particular type purely based on sales.
| QUOTE |
| THE MOSFET TRANSISTOR METAL OXIDE SEMICONDUCTOR FIELD EFFECT TRANSISTOR The power MOSFET transistor is an array of hundreds transistors integrated in a same silicon substrate. Each transistor drive a proportional part of total current. The principal MOSFET development reason was the multiple limitations of the traditional Bipolar Junction Transistors. Each manufacturer has development his own integration technology. MOSFET are known with the following brand names VMOS, UMOS, TMOS, HEXFET, referring with the first letter to the silicon integration geometry. MOSFET's are voltage controlled devices, this means that drain current is function of gate voltage. The following figure is the transfer characteristic of a MOSFET transistor. Transconductance, always crescent with drain current, has the responsibility of the MOSFET characteristic sound, the distortion harmonics components fall strongly beyond the second. MOSFET's are extremely fast devices, because needs a very small gate current to saturate or release the channel charge. For this property MOSFET's are widely used in switching applications. MOSFET's faster characteristics permits to design power output stages with wide bandwith and gain with better sound. MOSFET's has a very high input impedance, in consequence the driver stage is a low power circuit incrementing the global amplifier efficient. In other hand, the low power driver requires less transistors incrementing the free time between fails. In high power designs MOSET's transistor can paralleling in order to drive more current. This configuration is very stable thermically. |
is each speaker 300 watts rms or are they combined 300rms also where can i buy a sound enhancer from and how much are they
Per Cab
From me
£100 ish
From me
£100 ish
What do you think of theses speakers compared to the idex ones Behringer B1520 for £300 a pair.
| QUOTE (shevd @ Oct 31 2003, 11:28 AM) |
| What do you think of theses speakers compared to the idex ones Behringer B1520 for £300 a pair. |
First it's a 200W Speaker, so why are you comparing a more expensive 200W speaker against a cheaper 300W?
If you want a quote on the B1520, i'm certain that I can beat £300 / pair
- but it is 200W RMS not 300W RMS as you requested.
Is there much quality diffirence just out of interest
No Idea - i've never used / heard one
What is the make and model number on the sound enhancer
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