Thank you Mikeee for clearing that up (and for the time taken) - now stop reading this and go back & finish reading the 1st post

Which really begs the question - why do some DJs have a problem with the NADJ organising meetings, being invited to meetings, taking over meetings?

I have no intention of speaking for Phil but if I were the Chairman of a National organisation and found that, on this thread for example, 60% of respondents were against or had reservations about the organisation I represented I would look to address those concerns - many of which may be because of misinformation.

Why is the 'misinformation' there - that's easy. Questions are asked by our members. They are ignored and so possible answers/rumours are conveyed in their place.

The blame for this has to be placed firmly back at the organisation. They will only reap what they sow and if that means little in the way of addressing our members concerns then what can they expect but scorn and mistrust.

I can only suggest something that is, well a bit obvious - why doesn't the NADJ have a member of the committee to deal with these matters - liaise on forums, dispell rumours, answer questions etc. As it stands at the moment the Chairman is taking on this role along with his many others and TBH doesn't appear to have the time to do it (or answer the questions raised).

I do feel that I should emphasise (poss again) that this is not an attack on Phil or anyone else. Just as we spend a great deal of our free time here on DJU running the forum, I'm sure that members of the NADJ and others do exactly the same - that is not the issue and is not in dispute - it's the perception some of our members have that is the problem and TBH 4 pages in and we're no further forward.

On behalf of the members of DJU we need to resolve this - there's no point postponing it for another few months so it can rear it's head again (& fill my in-box) or coming to some sort of mash-up solution which will fail before the ink has dried.

Anyway I have made my point & leave it there for comments/suggestions.

Regarding QUESTIONS and CONTRIBUTION
Whilst I have not had the pleasure of meeting in person, I will say that clearly under scrutiny, Phil's predecessor Derek did contribute and answer member questions posed.

I believe to help resolve the problem (solution if you like to the problem) of directed questions and issues that may be raised on level of contribution to an online community...would be to nail these two points on the head in one action.

If a senior / junior member of any organisation is not prepared to state, answer in part or at least offer a straight answer to a straight question when posed (when participating here as a forum member) then clearly do not whine or moan when the members of this forum ask them directly when you are online!
DOH!

If you choose not to, or can not answer, that's fine! But why not simply appoint someone who can answer and who clearly has the time and effort to contribute to the forum.

Perpetrating the endless merry-go-round of not answering questions from potential new members of your organisation is probably a pointless exercise so come on, is there really anything wrong in having a little humility in agreeing to bring the ride to a halt?

Regarding EVENTS
Clearly, since the Events area has been live, the NADJ have promoted the West Midlands Meet, and the Staffordshire meet. The NADJ AGM was promoted in another forum thread last year....so I still can not see what the problem is regarding promotion of NADJ events on the forum?
No problem here then - no issue - matter closed.



Sorry Mikeee - some more reading for you - cherry pick what you like!

Whilst I appreciate that the NADJ may have been invited to attend, I would assume that the DJU Network EA thread was organised by DJU members?
Actually, you will find in the archives that the suggestion of an EA region association was discussed on DJU way back in 2005. Derek P offered assistance then, but nothing came to fruition some 2 or so years ago.

Mikee,

I have found the thread you refer to on another forum dated 30th May 2007 and note that there was zero replies to it. If you are referring a thread in July in the same part of the same forum, the only one I can see is for the East Midlands. So what ever was said or happened on the other forum had absolutely nothing to do with the meeting arranged on this forum. The meeting on this forum was also instigated by a different person.

With regards to the thread arranging the meet, may I refer the learned gentleman to the following posts:

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/index.php?s=&...st&p=191007

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/index.php?s=&...st&p=191106

<Quote from email that was circulated>
We are also currently in discussions with NADJ who will hopefully send a representative to discuss the benefits of membership - there is obviously no commitment being made to become part of the NADJ at this stage, just be good to hear what they have to say!
<unquote>

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/index.php?s=&...st&p=192738 - and particularly the bit that says:

<Quote>
Also please to let you know that Derek Pengelly will also be joining us to give a presentation on how NADJ can benefit local DJ's (please be assured that there is absolutely no pressure for anyone to join or for our local gatherings to be associated, but it is a chance to hear what they have to say and offer).
<Unquote>

At no time can I find anywhere that said or indicated that the meeting was being run by NADJ unless someone can point me to anything that states this.

With regards to my post on a totally different forum "making a mole out of a molehill", this came about after talking to some Eastern DJ's who weren't at the meeting because of the "NADJ involvement". I reiterated to them my understanding of the position in accordance with what was said in the above threads and what was agreed at the meeting. I then get accused of speaking total and the post on the other forum about the event being advertised on the NADJ website as a "NADJ East Anglia Meeting" was pointed out to me. Hence I asked for clarification as it was not what was implied before the meeting or agreed at the meeting and no, I wasn't a happy horace when I made the post.

If you read the thread when the meeting was arranged, you can see that I had and still have no problem with NADJ being present at the meeting. I, now it seems foolishly, tried to rustle up a bit more support for the next meeting based on information and reassurances that had been given.

I have since corresponded with Adam and am happy with the outcome of our correspondence. The unhappy DJ's I have urged to attend the next meeting so they can put their point of views across and their vote be counted if need be. Whether they turn up or not is up to them. It may seem petty to some and "making a mountain out of a mole hill" but personally I don't like to be accused of being dishonest and deceitful. I would also like to see the East Anglian meetings be as successful as possible without people being put off by personal prejudices fueled by misinformation.

I'm sorry but I can't find any questions that haven't already been answered elsewhere on this forum, or can be answered by a bit of research and there's no point in repeating them again.

You say your members have questions about NADJ yet in the same breath also say that members didn't attend a meet because of NADJ invlovement, where these questions could have been answered in person.

Anyway, there's not really alot more to say and I'm fed up of the constant baiting, so won't be posting again in this thread.

Good Morning one and all,



Why, is it worth it now, as this has got more twists and turns than Jeremy Paxmans underwear.

I'm only here because I was mentioned by name in the first post, other wise I would be a bystander, probably laughing my head off.



I don't know - because they can't, won't do it themselves, your guess is as good as mine. As for taking over, I wasn't there, I didn't see what happened, but if that had happened to me, I would have sent an official letter of complaint to whomever had done whatever they did.



Well, I've kept my head down over the last couple of years, which is the way I like it, so I don't know if any members that do have any complaint. If I was on the committee, and the system was failing a member, I would change the system, perhaps adopt the MU system of a letter signed by at least 5 / 10 paid up members to the area secretary to take action with the general secretary etc ect.



Paul, you don't need to resolve anything. Nearly all the posters here, actively post on other forums, under the same names, different names or what ever, and knowhere that I have seen has anyone complain about the NADJ, (other than the eastern meet which was a misunderstanding and from what I've read, has been apologised for on the 16th Jan), quite the opposite in fact, which begs the question, Why Here?? Why don't all the NADJ members with a complaint, complain to the NADJ?? Why use a third party that isn't a member??

Lets pose a question, would you ring up Equity, ask to see their books, question what they offer, etc, ect, ect, the answer is probably NO, because the first question they would ask is "And your name and membership number please" and without that they have no responcibility to answer.

Would you walk into a TV store and complain about how bad a 32" flat screen TV, and that they should withdrawn it from sale, and when asked "When did you buy it sir", you reply with, I haven't brought one.

As I said in an earlier post, if you want change, join and make the change happen. I did in 1992 with the TVDJA, and it took 10 years to make the change happen, I had to wait for some of the old codgers to retire, and I had to find the right people to move it forward, and Dan will confirm that, because he was one of them. Yes things change, yes it's a bumpy road, but better the bumpy road than the muddy track that bogs you down with no forward motion at all.

Paul, I know that there is no personnal attacks, other than Dan's dig at me in the first post (and he called me Mr) A few tempers have got frayed, which needn't of happend, and serves no purpose, so may I suggest that this thread is shut this one down, start a new one with bullet point questions that can be answered in a straight forward manor. It should also stop repeating the same thing over and over. If there are any members that have questions they should address them directly to the secretary of the NADJ, because that is an internal problem not a public problem. And I for one would be interested how other people perceive the NADJ.

My only other request would be, don't ask the dumb ass question "What do I get for my money", because there is no straight answer to that one, because it will be something different to each person. You don't turn around to the "XYZ Association" I'm not joining you if I have to pay, because I don't like what you offer - simply, don't join.

No but if that TV store was advertising on DJU and some of our members had a problem with that then I would look into the validity of them being here.

Over the last 10 months I have been asked one question more than any other - Why do we allow the NADJ (as an entity) to promote themselves on here when they offer DJU nothing in return?

The issue of a meeting that was/wasn't is/isn't now a NADJ Branch Meeting (as advertised on the NADJ website) is just one concern.

Just as the NADJ executive look after their members, we try to look after ours and when there is a problem we should have it out in the open and try and resolve it.

I am not remotely interested in the NADJ books - but in an earlier post was making the NADJ aware of some of the theories I've heard which have been put forward as a reason why they should not be here.

In spite of how it might read/appear I would rather the NADJ remain on DJU and it becomes a good working partnership. Perhaps the suggestion of a committee member being their spokeperson here, answering our members questions in a straightforward way and, in effect becoming part of the community might go a long way to removing the antagonism.

When Mr Moore did have an active role in NADJ, he attempted to answer as many questions as possible here. It's a pity that he is not now involved as he could have been an ideal candidate... along with those who are regular contributors / members of the association.

I've been mulling this thread over all day today and have what may be a stupid question...

Can I ask what DJU actually is please?

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the "DJU Forum" is in essence a privately owned and managed forum which is open to members of the public with an interest to join and use to discuss and interact in a non-direct way. I also understand that making the choice to become a active user of this forum that you are agreeing to abide by the rules and the way in which the forum is managed and run as those decisions and the running are carried out by a non-elected owner and his or her representatives.

Am I correct?

In wich case I am confused - if the DJU was in fact a group lead and managed by an elected representation of the members then surely the aproach to other organisations and groups would be done with the support of the members? As it stands, surely the members are simply choosing to participate in one persons viewpoint?

Maybe someone can clarify things?

your correct in the first part,but not so sure on the secound,the moderators will only delete/edit post if they break the rules of the forum at no point will they delete /edit a post because they disagree with what is written in the post.so from that point you can say what you like,you don't have to agree with anyone on anything.

The owner of this forum did approach the other organisations - on several occasions (re post 1 of this topic).

DJU (as I see it) supports all DJ events without favour and that's the way it should be however I see my role as supporting DJU members 1st and when many have an issue with a particular organisation (inc some 'senior' members who have been on here for a long time) then we can't just ignore it.

As can happen on forums sometimes the written word can be mis-interpreted or a responder can just cherry pick certain points and ignore others - not a dig, it's just the nature of things and we all do it. What this means though is a topic can go around in circles or move away from the main points.

Anyway back to the point - an increasing number of our members have made it known that they have a problem with the NADJ presence on this forum and we have to deal with it one way or another. I would hope that we can come to an agreement (and indeed have suggested one possible resolution) so that those members no longer have grounds for this grievance.

Maybe there are alternative solutions

Sorry, Paul, that didn't really answer my question. I apreciate that the owner of this particular forum may have attempted to pen channels with the NADJ, but I was actually interested to understand "what" the DJU actually believes it is, if indeed it believes it is more than simply an on-line privately owned discussion forum.

I guess I'm just a little dubious that the internet can ever be more than just what it is. There was a time when there was another privately owned discussion forum, not a democratic organisation and the attempts for it to be more than that seem to have never come to much.

While there clearly seems to be a difference of opinions surrounding the NADJ, as I understand things, the organisation is lead and run by an elected group of people, elected by the members - maybe I have that wrong. Surely the answer to a better representation for working mobile DJ's is to fight together and develope together. If the leadership of what currently seems to be the most forward thinking organisation is in questions, surely the way to change that is to become part of that organisation? Simply venting frustrations through an internet forum seems a really good way to break up and bridges that are being built.

To go back to the NADJ presence at the last Eastern DJ meet, I caon only say good and positive things about the representative of NADJ (Derek Penagaly) who came to talk to us. We can obviously only comment on our own personal experiancesm but mine have been nothing but good. I understand that the elected representatives at NADJ do not get paid for there time and a 5 hour drive on a Sunday to come and chat to 20 odd DJ's doesn't seem bad to me. Derek has done nothing but offer support and non-commital advice to date and has certainly made it very clear that local groups of DJ's need to make there own choices.

With all the issues and frustrations that we continue to face as mobile jocks, why on earth do we continue to argue and get frustrated with each other - that will surely just make things worse!

Role on the next Eastern Meet - really looking forward to it!

Just need to correct what people appear to have read as me saying the NADJ PLI policy is not worth having. I doesn't quite say that does it - the power of the misinturrpreted (sp) word. The NADJ PLI is great for DJ's, but if like me, you do several different things that each need a policy it becomes an expensive day out. As well as DJ'ing. I have a small agency, I do PAT for people in the entertainments business, mostly MU members , I do outside PA and I'm thinking of going back to theatre, so I was quite happy to find a broker that will do one policy that covers all of the above, + I believe it covers smoke, foam, bubbles, pyro's, swinging from the chandeliers and throwing bowling balls at the punters. But at £292.00, some people may consider this far too expensive.


Yep, If I had those compliants, I would have had an email off inside 5 mins asking for a correction / modification to the add, even more so if sheckles were passing hands.



Thank you kind sir. All any one can do is try, and this could be part of the root of the problem, nobody is doing this as a paid job, it is all voluntery (sp) and in some cases with out of your own pocket expences (and I will still be paying mine of in ten years). What drives them to do it (in their own way) is the knowledge that they are, in a small way, helping to start making the change of perseption of the DJ, not just in the publics eyes, but also and more importantly in the eye's of other DJ's, because they are the roll models of tomorrow. And to answer part of Dan's question, there was a lot of confusion as to exactly being offered and what was expected, plus offers coming to us via other members, the association was bearly months old, then I was told not to wear my NADJ hat when I came on the forum, so I didn't, and this is probably all part of the confusion as well,

Ok, for those NADJ members who have urged me to 'defend' NADJ on this thread, I am going to make a proposal at the end of this post after making a couple of points which are very important in the context of this thread.

I have not seen, in this thread or any other on DJU recently, any questions which can be answered.
I have seen insinuations like 'NADJ committee members taking trips to USA on members funds' or 'you keep your accounts/cards close to your chest'. They are not questions. They are merely posted to raise suspicion and do not ask a question.

I do not post on here as regularly as it appears some would like because of three things:

1) unreasonable moderation which means that according to the whim of the moderators my posts have either been edited or just plain not appeared. There is no recourse even for unreasonable moderation which can skew the meaning/direction of a thread.

2) Because of the above mentioned pre-moderation, I have not reached the required 50 posts so in some cases my replies have appeared much later (after pre-moderation) and either appear out of context or break the flow of discussion.

3) There are some members on here, who dissect every word I say and criticise it just for the sake of it, or add their own slant to it, for no apparent reason. One of them, at least, is a moderator!! When I complained about this very thing, I had a warning placed on my account. What sort of justice is that.

Now ask yourself, what encouragement has there been for me to take part in this forum, in the light of the above.

However, just to dispel the inaccuracy posted by 'mattaious' recently, I have been able (due to a relaxing of the firewall at the hospital I work in) to view DJU on Sunday evenings/nights when it is quiet and we are not out on a call. If that poster had bothered to look, my most recent posts had been increasingly taking part in discussions about a range of things - starting up, music choice etc. Only on subjects, however, that I have something constuctive to add or certain knowledge. Still I get criticism. Now you understand why I feel unwelcome here.

Now to the nub, as NADJ chairman, I am happy for the owners of DJU to open a 'NADJ questions' thread and if any DJU members, whether NADJ members or not, have got any questions to ask, I will answer them directly or get a committee member who is more pertinent to give me an answer which I will post.

I will ask that the owners, not the moderators for reasons posted above, maintain a watch on the thread as I will not answer any malicious, libellous or just plain rude questions. At the same time I will not duck awkward questions should any arise. Obviously I will not be able to answer any questions for which the answer would break any member's confidence but I will point that out at the time whilst answering as straightforwardly as possible.

I will visit every night possible (apart from most Saturdays) in order for the questions to be answered as quickly as possible.

In the meantime, I am perfectly happy to correspond with anyone if they email me or phone me with a question, query or concern. That has always been the case.

The clean page starts here as far as I am concerned.

Apologies Matt - maybe this from the Portal page is more relevant ...



and if I can cover these points by Phil



Whenever a post is Moderated an extra line is added to tell the poster who has edited it - usually a PM is sent explaining the action. I say usually because there have been occasions when this has not happened (sometimes it can get busy) however if (& this applies to anyone) a post is edited and you don't know why send a PM to the Mod who edited it. In most cases it's quite obvious why the edit has been done. Any member can also appeal against any Mod action if they think it unfair.



Whenever a post is approved from the Mod queue it slots in at the place/time when the post was made (not at the time it was approved). On some fast moving topics other posts may have been made in the meantime however the flow of the topic (& the post in question) will appear in context.



Some of this comes down to interpretation of the written word. There are also members who distrust the NADJ and what it stands for, what it is doing etc. This is something that can change (ie trust can be built up). All Mods uphold the rules - sometimes it's clear cut that a rule has been broken and action is taken. At other times the post/member in question is discussed by the Mod team before action is taken.

It's not normal practice on this forum to publicly comment on Mod actions (we use the PM facilty) however to clear up the point you make - the warning was issued because you made a post contrary to the rules here. At the time you were notified of the rule you had broken. It was a clear cut decision and would have applied to any member who made a similar post.

I appreciate that you wear many hats in the DJ world (& have a job as well) which is why the suggestion was made that you nominate a member of your organisation to be the spokesperson on DJU and take part in other discussions on here/offer advice. At the moment it is a chicken & egg situation - some members of the NADJ don't feel welcome here and therefore don't post / some DJU members see the NADJ as only coming here en-masse when an event is pending or something else to their advantage. Maybe that will change.

I hope that's answered at least some of the recent points made

lets all start anew and give phil what he has asked for.
nothing ventured nothing gained.
and it's possible we could all gain something.

Can you please find out what the members mean by "Distrust". The NADJ is still far to small and with limited funds to be able to hide anything or do anything dodgy. And what is mean't by "What it stands for"??? It is run by DJ's for the ultimate benefit of DJ's. You have the "local" meetings which appear to be well attended and very much enjoyed, and they are gaining support from retailers and manufacturers alike, so far I see no problems - just like SEDA but all over the place. As I said in a previous post, you need to layout the specific points so that they can be delt with individually rather than the generalisations, because generalisations can't be answered with acurate answers.



I think you may find that quite a few NADJ members come here on and off, but things are only noticable when a "name" like Phil comes on. But I'm sure things can only get better.

It's quite likely that some of DJUs members will appreciate that "clean page" intention. Although, of course, as is so true at other times for us all "You can't please all the people all of the time, only some of the people, some of the time." (or something like that).

With direct discussion regarding points raised here now progressing via Private Message, this thread is brought to a definate close.