Again a bit of market research here and NOT a finger pointing excercise. Again, polls are totally anonymous, there is no way that I can link a click of a yes or no button to any individual and no reason why there would be any need to .

I am well aware that just as many D.J's work without any form of PLI as those who do have cover. It's not my business to discover who has and who hasn't unless you want to volunteer the pro's and cons below.

The reason for this poll is simple. Mikeee has got a certain Insurance Company expressing an interested in taking part on the forum, no doubt they see it as an advertising excercise but I want it to be a little bit more than that .

Now is the chance to ask your questions, to put your views forward, find out what is and isn't covered and whether a bubble or smoke machine makes you a higher risk or not.

Please vote and please vote honestly

For the sake of a couple of quid I am insured yes.

It comes as part of my equipment insurance from E&L.
Spinko

Comes as part of mine from Music Guard - Paid the extra £74 for the £5million though....

I have £1m but could do with £5m

As above part of my E & L Insurance

spin

Ditto!

I voted no because i'm in between insurances and am thinking of signing up with music guard but my insurance has only just run out so no finger pointing

I'm insured up to $1M

Insurance is a very good idea!!

You remember me telling you that I went to a wedding a couple of months ago (as a guest) and the dj was using a bubble machine on a hard wooden floor.

As you know bubbles and hard floors dont mix, and as a result the bride slipped over and broke her wrist.

She is now suing the dj!!!!

Hi

Better to pay a few quid now than a few thousand in court.

yes I'm insured for 2 million for myself and Darre J, the other DJ.

Darren

my insurance is with E & L. still at the £1m level.

Anyone know any companies who offer £5m

I dont have any insurance because i only do about 2 mobile gigs a year so dont think it would be cost effective. Everything else i do is in venues with their own equipment, so as far as i am aware, its not my resposibility if there is an accident involving it (unless of course i threw a turntable at someone !).

Hi

Reason for getting PLI...sorry Chris, I got it before I found this place.

Reasons:

1. Is good for advertising purposes, telling folks your fully insured is a sign of professionalism.

2. When a restarted with new gear, I couldn't get work with other dj's or agencies without PLI.

3. In my position having to trust in the eye sight of a colleague, better safe than sorry.

Darren

Hi people, my first post on this forum! Had a read through the wedding section... very useful! Good to read other people's ways of performing at events!

Anyway, sorry, back to the post..I've had public liability for about 2 yrs now... all those no win no fee ads on the tv kinda makes you think people are being invited to sue!

Cover is 1.25m I think which is enough for most mobiles. More and more venues around this area, partic. city centre hotels need both public liability insurance and PAT testing certificates to even let you in the place! Is it like this elsewhere in the country?

Suppose when you have seen some of the cowboys on the scene, Phoenix nights 'Dj Rayvon' kinda setup!...then you understand they need a bit of confidence to let you in the venue!

Steve

Local council here is £5m or good night !!

£5m is steep aint it??? Must push your premiums up a lot insuring your setup for that kinda cover.

I've never really been asked how much the cover is for...just are u pat tested and insured.

Steve

I'm down in Surrey and most places are going to £5M as well.

I've heard a rumor that Kent want £10M, have to wait and see on that one.

Hmmm £10m....what a nice new hotel you could build with that sort of money!

we'll have to start asking the hotels to show us copies of there prs liecences and confirmation that the ring main we are plugging into is safe...lol

were does it end ????????????????????

Last time I was in Bexleyheath Mike (few weeks back ) it was 5m, that was the local council leisure centre. Dunno if its changed since.

Spin

I DJ in kent most weekends and i have only ever been asked to produce my PLI Once !!! I have 2million..Not 10 !!! dont know what venues are asking for that much !

usually they want 5m cover when it is a listed building

I did say that it was only a rumor

Just wanted to clarify my earlier post. My PLI is with E&L and comes as part of my equipment insurance. Normally, it is £2m, paid in 4 weekly instalments, but because I am a member of their 'Platinum club' this is increased to £3m. I currently pay about £8.60 every 4 weeks.

With regards to higher levels, the only easily accessible policy I know of, is that you get when you join the Musicians Union, which I think is £10m. Fees for the MU are dependant upon how much you think you will earn per annum.

Personally for such a small outlay, you'd be mad not to have it

Spinko

We also have a policy with E & L I think it is £1.25m Pli.
We decided to take it out after reading about it on the forum, must admit it gives us peace of mind as regards the public are concerned and that our equipment is covered. Have not been asked for it as yet.
We don't have our equipment pat. tested just plug everything into Rcd's.
On the subject of council property, I visit many of these in our area through my daytime job with my employer ( Electricity Utility ) and they have some of the worst electrical systems going !
Mike & Adam

I gotta agree with aj - council properties are amongst the worst offenders for dodgy electrics! And, its usually the "jobsworths" who bother to ask for production of your pli certs..... I have worked for many councils doing fun days and mayors things, schools etc and have NEVER been asked to produce..... Years ago, when I did not have cover, I was asked by a local council - said I didnt have it at the time - and because they were desperate for me to work, said fine.... ours will cover you!

I've never had a claim on PLI at any time when I've had it.

However, I'm finding more and more venues, especially council organisations, asking to see the certificate before the gig date. The last time I had to show the certificate was when I was supplying two snow machines to fire off the top of a 20 storie building in a town centre christmas lights switch on....

The fun with that gig was that we had to start the snow machines off about 20 seconds before the countdown (from "10...9...") started...to allow "Fall time" for the snow to descend 20 stories onto the crowd...thank heavens for mobile phones...(Roadie on ground, me - slightly higher)...

further to PLI.... has anyone ever been asked to do a "risk assessment" for their disco by a venue.....I have!

I had to provide a risk assessment for a Railway related company...what a bunch!

They sent me a sample risk assessment report to go by...risks included "Driving to venue: Risk = might get involved in a road accident."

In fact: The words "Might" and "Could" featured quite heavily throughout the report.

It was tempting to add "It is possible that the DJ MIGHT get so bored with typing up a risk assessment report for the gig, that he COULD turn the gig down." but, I didn't...and thankfully saved the document because I was able to submit the same report, with just one or two amendments, for about 10 gigs for them over a two year period.

Gazza...... you should have seen mine.... I stated that to minimise any risk I give precise and specific instructions pointing out possible dangers and hazzards which must be avoided by the audience.
The main risk will be from people who choose to ignore the given safety advice and due to their own reckless behaviour, risk injuring themselves by behaving in a far from acceptable manner!!

I used to work for a FMCG company - very well known... and we were one of the first companies to introduce the food processor to the UK..... After one complaint from a "stupid" customer... we had to re-write all the instruction manuals including telling them "do not lick blade - sharp object not suitable for putting in mouth"

Its normally only the idiots that are a risk - and they are usually a risk to us!

Why? well, personally I think it was a mistake, made by the new managers of the venue. They probably had some lovely red-tape procedures stating that "all work paid for by the venue must...blah, blah, blah". probably a knee-jerk reaction to the various, horrendous safety issues that the railway industry has suffered for too long now.

My "report" was about 4 pages long (both sides of paper used, but a size 14 font to help pad it out a bit), and only DJ's prepared to submit the report (which I doubt was ever actually read), were ever used.

Bizarre.

I think most of these can be addressed with a bit of thought..

Paula -spot on about the big rig at the uni - the only problem was that H&S didnt know anything about how to "make the structure safe", the Fire brigade had no guidelines over it, and after a hundred or so phone calls to various governing bodies, nobody actually had a clue about the safety aspect of the rig - including astralite who manufactur the thing.

The only thing we were asked to do by the Fire brigade was to drill the legs into the floor - (they had to come up with something). After explaining to them that this would damage the floor and displaying several gymnastic feats on the rig - the FB rep decided that it was actually safe.

The problem with H&S for discos is that nobody actually has any rules about what is safe and what is not due to the fact that they dont have much knowledge about the rig....... believe me, we tried to get many governing bodies to approve/and tell us what safety measure SHOULD be in place ... but nobody could tell us anything!

As long as we all use common sense and hopefully the H&S officer adopts the same attitude, then if we know what we are doing there should not be a problem.

If there isnt a rule then quite often a governing body will make one up for the hell of it! Ask them to show you where the rule is written and they cant!

I see a pattern forming with these bloody council officials - whenever you are believed to be in the wrong they show up with almost alarming regularity and reels of red tape and lovely forms for you to fill in!. Then when you actually request some information in order to keep you the right side of the law or regulations in the 1st place then they give you the blank look and mumble something about it not being their department. . Paper wielding desk jockeys is what it comes down to, justifying their existance, after all, if we kept to the right side of the law, then all the clipboard visiting officials would have to be found other roles in busier departments...........digging up roads and fitting speed camera's spring to mind .

And how come, we have a postal strike delaying mail up here, yet my Council Tax bill has shown up right on cue!

Good Point by Chris about knowing your fire exits in the venue...(you'll obviously know ONE fire exit very well, its the one that LOOKED like the easiest route in from the van, with 50 armfuls of gear, apart from the fact that some Grandad, Grandma, and two young ladies (one "quite nice" and one too tarted up) plus two hyperactive kids, all decided to stand as soon as you opened the door, completely ignorant to the fact that they're in your way, until journey number 49, when they suddenly "twig")...

I've probably been DJ'ing at about a dozen do's over the years, where the fire alarm has gone off at a venue (only once was down to me using Pyro's ). The normal thing that I do now, (and I've cleared this with my main venue) is:

• When the alarm sounds, fade the music to a low background level
• Announce on-air that the noise is (obviously) the buildings fire alarm
• Tell people to remain where they are, as a member of the venue staff will be advising me shortly whether we need to evacuate
• If you've got a radio mic, stand as close to the venue person as possible(with mic off - so that the talk of "suspect packages etc" doesnt reach the audience
• If given the "All-clear" tell people its just a false alarm and return to the music - (fade it up slowly over a tune or two for hearing thresholds to "dampen")
• If told by venue staff to evacuate, confirm the muster point/assembly point with the venue staff
• Go On-air and tell the people that the venue haven't be able to confirm that its a false alarm so please walk calmly to the assembly area which is at....
• Switch on main room lights / switch off Disco lights (if not off already). Switch off smoke machine too...(!)
• Stand by the fire exit "mushing" people out calmly, while keeping an eye on your CD collection...

Oh...handy hint...Try not to be wearing a Santa Suit while directing people to the Assembly point...[red faced smilely needed]

Yeah - all good points Gary and Paula, but I think the general rule in any business, especially our line of work is to expect the unexpected, especially in the procedure of evacuations - after all, you are the Guy with the Radio mic and the large P.A system , and don't you get asked to relay the Last Orders, Buffet, Bride & Groom leaving, and The management would request that you leave the venue quietly type messages? - so why would an emergency situation be any different. If you work the large village / town halls then you may be the only person in the venue capable of making an evacuation decision - at least the caretakers around here tend to open the door then wonder off home to watch Miss Marple before they return at 1AM to lock up!.

Let's say that the firebell began ringing and smoke began to appear from under a storage room door which houses the electrics, its a village hall with no official staff, now here is an anouncement from a D.J at his first gig, who hasn't thought about this situation occuring...

Fire!, Fire!..get the hell out of here.quick!.the fire exits are....errrr errr there's one over there *Frantically looks around the room for Exit Signs* and...oh just get out quickly *Drops Mic, and starts packing away*

Or the guy with enough basic experience to know better.......

Ladies and Gentleman, we have a situation which requires us to clear the building as quickly as possible. The emergency exits are located and the left and right hand side of the dancefloor - please use them. *Roadie is already on their way to open them* The management request that you assemble on the main car park at the front of the building, and await further instruction. *Repeats announcement again if required* - then switches off all gear and leaves the building*. .

Okay so it may never happen, but which D.J would you prefer to be in control given this situation at your function. It takes little skill, and a little bit of thought and any D.J of any experience or age can do it, and after all, most of it is just plain old common sense.

Another reason to carry your COSHH Certificates for your smoke fluid around with you (slapped wrist for me!). Little James Smith has crawled behind the gear and discovered your stash of fog fluid and may have taken a swig. You turn around to find him sat with the open container and fog fluid dribbling down his chin . Obviously medical treatment is required, and if you hand the document to the hospital then they will have an idea about what they are dealing with. Far fetched?, Million to one chance?, well it can and has happened, and for the sake of carrying a piece of paper around with you what have you got to lose?.

Alternatively, you could be (un)lucky enough to have a venue which uses the automated talking fire alarms, that tie into the venues PA system.

Like the ones that confused/alarmed(no pun intended - cough!) everytime they were demo'd near Mikeee's stand at PLASA 2003.

Chris
So if i understand you correctly every time I buy fog or haze fluid i should be supplied with a COSHH certificate?? Can I demand such a thing? Never having been offered asked or anything else I'd like to know where i stand. Reason i ask is cos I can see the local shop coming back with "Oh we have one because we are stockists but because you are only buying a litre/ 5 litres you are exempt or something similar!

Never to old to learn and sounds like another good excuse for a poll "how many DJ's have ever been supplied with a COSHH cert?"

Spin

I think these bubbles have been blown out of all proportion

It leaves me totally mistified