Please vote in this poll, even if you ignore all the other ones , since I may use it to pressure the manufacturers at the PLASA, but not if it only gets 10 votes lol

This poll is to indicate the demand for an integrated Dual Hard Drive system which DOESN'T require the use of a PC or Laptop for storage. Basically like your existing Citronic, Kam, Denon etc Dual Cd player but using two hard drives instead of CD Trays for MP3 formats.

I am more than aware that there are some systems similar to this available (Numark - PCDJ, Citronic etc) but these still rely on the addition of a PC or Laptop.

Please cast your vote - it takes around 2 seconds, in fact less time than it has taken for you to read this

I quite like the Numark ones as you can just upload your set list with out having to scroll thru thousands of mp3 on a tinny screen on your dual cd player.

I'm probably going to sound "picky" here but...

What I'd like is a dual cd-deck (rack mounted) with 2 CD trays and either 1 or 2 USER UPGRADABLE harddrive(s) inbetween/under the two drives.

The reason why I say User upgradable is simply due to the plummeting costs (per gigabyte) of Harddrives nowadays, although I realise this could start leveling off soon.

Sticking an 80gig harddrive into this "super Mp3 unit" TODAY, would cost a manufacturer around (say) £60. In a couple of years time, however, a user running low on storage space could probably buy a drive thats twice as big for half the price.

Having CD-drives on the unit as well as the harddrives, would mean that I, (or the user) could load in their shop bought/home recorded CD's into the "Super MP3 unit" without having to connect a separate CD deck (Via Digital SPDIF I guess) or PC(via USB), to load tunes into the unit.

Having drives that are 8x, 16x or even 52x normal read speed, would allow entire CD's to be "fed" into the unit in the time it takes one tune on the other drive to play out.

I see the display of information being a critical issue here, as well as some kind of "Search by keyword" option being essential. EG: Search for any tunes by "Sanchez" or "Junior Senior" etc etc. I certainly wouldnt want to manually find track number 24,367 and mix it into track 11,843. So maybe a reasonably good multi-line display on-board, with a Video-out socket on the back for hooking up a TFT monitor, as an option.

What you have just described is a computer but is bound to be more expensive. I have a rack mount computer the case cost the same amount as the hardware inside which is silly but not many people are after them.
an 80GB hard drive is enough for my OS and just about all my 'mp3's though I don’t use mp3 format as it is lossy so i use ogg.
And with the passing with time audio formats will change and you might end up having a 1TB drive with uncompressed audio on it

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I quite like the Numark ones as you can just upload your set list

So there goes a bloke who doesn't figure in audience request's to his "set"

When you do mobile work it's nigh on impossible to be able to "guess" what you'll be asked to play. Okay so you can load it with some of the "Favourites" that always fill the dancefloor, but you couldn't guess what you'll play and in what order

All this talk of 'uploading set lists' and PC's; as someone said on this site not long ago you might as well give them a tape,go home and return to turn the tape over,then ask them to turn off all the lights when they leave!!

TOM , where did you find a rack mount case for the computer ? ,

If any link conflicts with Chris's buisiness intrests , please PM it to me , thanks.

Or perhaps Chris has a store room full of them for sale

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Or perhaps Chris has a store room full of them for sale

Haha, Fat Chance of that . I'll settle for a storeroom full of 30mw laser's at the moment, which should have been here on Monday, but HM customs and excise have taken a shine to them, and held them up

I'm happy enough to use a set list/play list for background music eg: During the munchie bit of a Dinner dance.

I'm lucky enough that my CD-decks remember the Program/play order of discs that I put in, automatically next time I insert that CD. Save's me having to manually program in Track 4, then 7, then 21, then 12....etc etc etc at the start of each Dinner dance.

I would "consider" the use of a "main music" eg: Mid-show, track listing EG: 6 songs from the 60's, or 8 Glam rock tunes of the 70's... but only in a "ready to be mixed - AS THE DJ sees fit" not on some auto-mix button.

Thats what the short-lived Pioneer CDX(?)-5000 cd-deck tried to offer. But was quickly (suspiciously quick) replaced by their 3000 dual CD-deck a mere few months after.

NineLives, you get get hold of rack mount cases from most good computer dealers, if not then these types of cases are normally found on studio sound sites. Or if you dont mind making a PC you can just search on the internet for a supplyer.
Hope that helps.

And as for not figuring in audience request's. We do have CD players you know, we can just fling on a CD if they want a track, but with MP3 you dont have to mess about looking for all your CDs.
Its a handy trick for ya.

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Thats what the short-lived Pioneer CDX(?)-5000 cd-deck tried to offer. But was quickly (suspiciously quick) replaced by their 3000 dual CD-deck a mere few months after.

Gary, both the CMX-3000 and CMX-5000 are still currently available from Pioneer (and us @ £599.00 and £699.00 respectively) and one didn't replace the other, it was just that the CMX-5000 had a few more features aimed at the club D.J, and the CMX-3000 was the almost identical twin brother, with a lower price tag for all you thrifty mobile D.Js

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And as for not figuring in audience request's. We do have CD players you know, we can just fling on a CD if they want a track, but with MP3 you dont have to mess about looking for all your CDs.

I'm sorry but call me old fashioned, but I don't really get the point of lugging all of that computer hardware from gig to gig. Okay, I could understand using MP3 in order to rid yourself of endless cd boxes, but from what you have said, you are still carrying around CD Players and cd's - so what is the point?, you may as well leave the pc at home

The point of this thread was to pressure the manufacturers for a MP3 player which was identical to the popular twin cd player format. Ideally in rack format and using 2x VFD or LCD multiline displays complete with command keys mounted in the "control" unit. The twin HDD would then be mounted in the second rack unit in place of the conventional CD Trays. Ideally the manufacturer could make the hd removeable, so it could be upgraded by the user (20gb replaced with a 40 or even 80gb! for example), being removeable it could also be slotted into some sort of HD cradle fitted to the users pc, so you simply pull out the hd, and slot it into your pc cradle to transfer material from pc to hdd. Failing that a USB socket could be mounted on the rear panel to enable the same, for the less experienced!.

Not too much to ask, and shouldn't be too expensive - portable MP3 players such as the nomad go for around £140 and boast similar features!.

The main point of this sort of player, would be to rid the need to carry around sensitive pc equipment, Dedicated MP3 chipsets do exist which would replace the motherboard and the on board flash memory would rid the need of standard memory. The MP3 chipsets already offer a sampling rate of over 300kbs making it compatible with high quality MP3's, and onboard stereo audio removes the need for a soundcard.

Better still - Nothing would be running under Windows .

The entire MP3 decoder is on a pcb measuring around 150mm x 60mm - making it easily fittable into a rack case. LCD or even 5" TFT would give you all the information required.

Im surprised at the Pio 5000 still being available. The Software bugs used to cause the unit to lock up (or at least its control panel) during certain operations. Especially Auto-mix... it would sit there for "ever" waiting for Sync between the tracks, and if that sync did'nt "appear" the song would end, but the player would still sit there, waiting.

As for the MP3 player. couldnt we turn the problem on its head....Try getting Nomad's manufacturers to add some DJ features, like Varispeed and Key Adjust/Lock.

Gemeni released a dual mp3 player, dunno name, but u can prob check it out on http://www.pssl.com or http://www.idjnow.com/. w/e, but only drawback, u need a comp to burn mp3s....but other then that, really good...i would get it if i can afford it

I think you will find that the Gemini unit plays both .cda & .mp3. There are a couple of drawbacks which I spent some time with Gemini, pointing out and trying to rectify, these mods should be incorporated in the next generation (I hope)

Actually the answer may be just around the corner , i've had some pre-release information today, regarding the release of a new product which may fill the requirement.

I'm not going to give too much away at the moment since I know of at least one member of this forum who has strong links with another D.J outlet (Yeah nowhere is safe - they get bloody everywhere )

Just to give you the basics:-

Totally Stand alone - no pc or software to carry around and no monitor

Built in 20gb hard drive - upgradable by user to 40 or 80gb - standard ISA drives will work okay.

Built in CDROM drive for converting CD to MP3 (to enable you to "rip" your standard audio cd's into the hdd) or for installing raw MP3 from a CDR. Of course, having a built in CDROM means that you will not only have the option of using it to install your MP3's - but also a dual cd player as back up in the same unit .

USB download facility from PC

Large back lit LCD Display - which will display Track info, MP3 Tags, bit rate, hdd space, time data etc. Not exactly TFT but what the hell!.

Not much more info at present since it's still only just going into production. However I'm hoping that there will be some sort of easy search facility for fast finding of tracks, artist etc. Since this took me ages to find, I'm also hoping to be the first to offer it when it's released.

Price - not sure yet, will know more in the coming weeks, possibly around £799 retail which puts it closer to £500 - £600 from me. Since this manufacturer is not represented in this country at present, I hoping to get a good deal from them .

We'll see what happens in the coming months, I'll post more when I've seen a sample and got some technical data on it.

Watch this space.

Oh, Oh (after serveral large scotches) oh, I'm excited, please tell more.

Ok well I voted, but I still see MP3 as the way forward and would'nt be without my two laptops now. Where once were Technics 1200's are now laptops complete with various playlists for the munchies, background etc. I can honestly say that using Windows XP pro as the OS and Mixmeister Pro I have never in two years had a crash (touch wood) However as discussed in another thread these are ONLY used for Gigging. Any downloading is done and cleaned on the desktop prior to transfer to laptop. The smiles on faces when you can do Auntie Flo's kneesup and play exactly what 'she' remembers as a girl can't be beaten. Conversley with the right websites as you know you can be playing tracks 2 months prior to release. My CD's are now there as a mere crutch and invariably stay in their box, apart from my Mastermixes and DMC mixes which I still subscribe to. Oh and before anyone asks I did the same as several others here and got made redundant in 83. I gave my self 6 months to make it or break it and have'nt worked at a normal job in the day since, working 5 nights a week residency's and leaving Fri and Sat as available to the Wedding Birthday set, the social life is crap but I would'nt swap it for the earth!

I am still weary, although I know its the way to go. As the law stands at the moment, if you are caught the fine is a £1,000 per track and they take away all your kit, CDs and any equipment you have at home. My next major task, probably next year, is to lobby MP's, and the BPI for a special license to allow the copying and use of, for disco work.

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My next major task, probably next year, is to lobby MP's, and the BPI for a special license to allow the copying and use of, for disco work.

Good luck Mike, but ultimately the copyright of material and any action directly, or indirectly taken against an individual or group comes under international jurisdiction of the R.I.A.A based in the U.S, and isn't a matter which can be approved or disproved by any independant country

You may remember the first action taken against napster, which resulted in it's downfall and closure, and more recently the closure of Audiogalaxy and the ongoing action against kazaa and other P2P applications, all of these actions have been taken by the R.I.A.A and not as a result of the country in which the servers of these utilities reside.

Basically, any approval for this type of application would need to be taken up with, and approved by the R.I.A.A, and if I'm honest I really don't see you getting anywhere with that.

To give an example, I believe that Kazaa moved all of its main servers and offices to a remote, privately owned island off the coast of Australia (Correct me if I'm wrong). Being privately owned and funded, they have done this to be beyond U.S Jurisdiction and subsequently any resulting action by the R.I.A.A - even so it appears that they are currently losing the legal battle and may soon also close - however this is one of the reasons why they have remained operational for so long

Interestingly, for those who actively use mp3's for their set. I have been forwarded a copy of a article in a trade publication. It's almost 18 months old so I don't know if it is still valid, but it may be useful information should the need arise.

It deals, with what to do in the event that your venue gets a "visit". Usually any investigation is instigated and carried out by the local trading standard office. In order to take action against you for using or possessing MP3's or illegal copyrighted material they need to obtain proof - i.e cease and view your cd's or the offending material. Interestingly - according to this article, in order to do this they:-

(1) If its a private function, have the permission of the venue owner or the hirer to enter

OR:-

(2) Have a warrant and be accompanied by the police to gain access without permission of the above mentioned

Even so once inside, any property of yours cannot be viewed or ceased without your permission, or the production of a signed and valid warrant.

The information then goes on to describe how T.S operate on a fear principle, mainly relying on the fact that you will not know your rights and hand over your collection without any warrant or fuss.

Interestingly, according to the article, in order for T.S to get a warrant raised and signed by a local magistrate they need to have at least some evidence or "reasonable grounds" of suspicion. In the case of people trading on market stalls / computer fairs etc, this usually means obtaining photographs and undercover T.S officials actually buying the copyright material from the trader.

Given this fact, I am wondering how they are going to prove a case against a working D.J?, methinks at the moment they are concentrating on the people doing this directly "For Profit" - i.e selling on via market stalls or internet forums (one of the reasons why I won't allow this sort of trading on here).

If you weigh up these facts, then to a D.J the risk is low, but it is stll a risk nevertheless and it comes down to the individual whether you actively use Mp3's or not.

Disclaimer:-

I'm not trained in legal matters and therefore take no responsibilty for the informaton given above, which was taken from a trade only publication Dated Jan 2002 and posted in good faith.

I concur with everything you said Chris, I used to work for the local authority in an 'enforcement' position and had much contact and knowledge of the activities of trading standards. In fact it was the local authority who made me redundant back in 83.............and............... who still use me for all council functions etc complete with Mp3's and who paid me for my services to provide music on the picket lines in the one day actions recently!! Now if that is'nt going to be an interesting court case should it ever befall me then I don't know what is!!!!

Chris that sounds nice any info you could pm me or a web site you could point me to ?

I carry my twin numark cdn34 and my pc i was thinking about getting a laptop but I may wait now as the technology seems to be moving quite fast (any lead times on this btw ?) I would ideally like an integrated system that plays mp3s from a very big HDD that I can manipulate i.e. speed up and slow down via a jog wheel and a twin cd unit all in one, now I would be prepared to out mega money for this !

BTW what sound cards are you ppl using in your pc's laptops ?

I said about lobbying MP's, As the Industry are noe sells machines that play MP3, perhaps the industry will back the lobbying. A DJ stands up and shouts, nobody listens, corporate bodies shout some one will listen.

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BTW what sound cards are you ppl using in your pc's laptops ?

I used to use a Creative Soundblaster, but upgraded to a Midiman Delta 44 last year... jeez, it's like comparing a Robin reliant to a Ferrari
The sound quality is sooooo much better with the Delta. It's amazing what a difference a decent soundcard can make.
You can check out the specs here Midiman Delta 44

chris mcgregore audio have a single play mp3 player pre loaded
with approx 1500 tracks and with hard drive space left to load more

Chris, I also agree with what you posted.

But like a jigsaw puzzel, the pieces are slowly, very slowly, fitting together.

If it falls upon DJ's to obtain license for Publishers copyright and Performance copyright , ie, DJ's have to get a form of licence (which, currently venues obtain) then, I feel the process of imposing fines on 'illegallly' recorded played material at gigs may be 'enforceable' in Public venues than private hired venues.
However, on same subject, the only major problem I can see is enforcement / inspection of a DJs music library as even bouncers don't even have the right for search, so how would an enforcement bod get away with it at a gig?

And Mikee, its all very well standing up and making demands, but it's better to sometimes listen to others who will be affected as a result of you pushing for your 'licence'!

So much for the rest Chris!!!! You seem to be on the go as much as ever
Received my snow machine - thanks - already covered the garden! Should be using it next month for a few 'Teen Discos' will let you know how I get on.

Back to the subject- this sounds like progression please keep us updated

Paul S

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So much for the rest Chris!!!!

LOL - don't worry I'm resting, but at least I get to take the laptop out into the Garden for a Beer this afternoon! in order to keep up with "forum affairs" .

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chris mcgregore audio have a single play mp3 player pre loaded

This is a new one on me , and I am a Mcgregor Distributor, are you sure it is Mcgregor as in the Disco Equipment Manufacturer?. Any idea of a model number?. I'll make some enquiries.

I've been thinking about the possibilities of this sort of Hardware based system again. To the point of actually discussing the design with an Engineer in the U.S who has already successfully developed a standalone / in car system, and who is also open to further development of his projects .

What I really need is more discussion on the subject, the idea being to offer a design similar to that of a standard dual cd player, but using a harddrive(s) to store your entire music collection in MP3 format. This would remove the need for a Laptop(s), Expensive Soundcards, Dedicated Software and Windows!.

What we need to know, is whether this would be viable for you, and whether it is worth me investing in the idea . I have also invited the Designer onto the Forum, and hopefully he will be following your comments and idea's with interest.

Your thought's and suggestions please.......

I would think it would need a keyboard and some kind of screen for searching queing songs playlists etc , two hard drives is a lot of songs to remember without a search function..

My Creative HD Jukebox has the above mentioned . but lots of keypressing to find and que songs..

This dual hd player sounds nice , but it may end up more like a computer ?? and expensive

Well Bill, it all depends on what you would term expensive. Obviously given my policies it would be as competitive as possible , but a lot does depend on the technology behind it, and the cost of the actual circuitry.

Obviously the more you get involved with dedicated TFT Monitors for display purposes and the display circuitry to drive them, then you are getting into the realms of a large bank balance. The idea is to offer a more flexible means of storing large amounts of MP3 data, with better display and search facilities than the Archos / Creative style players which are a little fiddly to work with and not really suitable for dedicated D.J use.

What I am working on, is basically the flexibility of having two Creative style Jukeboxes, housed in a professional 19" case, one case the the control panel, and one for the main HD unit linked with a link lead (Just like a dual CD) with either removable hard drives, or USB Download Facility . Obviously I want to avoid TFT Monitors if I can, since even the 5" displays will add about £90 trade to the cost of the end unit, then you need to start looking at dedicated processors and PCB to run the display alone!.

There are plenty of other display options around, which have the capability of displaying multi line information, and work from simple programmed software. Obviously with white or blue backlighting then these will also look pretty nice and very clear and will make the unit more competitively priced.

Again, the drawback with the personal style Jukeboxes are the size of the buttons. We would ensure that they would be of a similar size to those found on a regular Dual Cd Player, perhaps with the larger style Play / Pause button. A pitch control for each player, is also something that the designer is looking into.

Better still is the option of using a PS/2 style keyboard to control the search / control functions - keyboards are very inexpensive and this is likely to be the method of approach!.

As far as cost goes, well it's going to take some time to work out the actual cost of producing such a unit, and the demand for it. This is really where this forum comes in.

If you consider the cost of a decent laptop, upgrade the memory / H.D if you need to, then buy a good quality carry case, invest in PCDJ or other dedicated control panel or software, then the time taken to set it all up. Plus the fact that technically you have "lost" a good laptop because the only task you can ask of it, is Mp3 playback then you are looking at quite an outlay.

If this idea comes off, then you would have a full hardware based Dual MP3 player with similar features to that found on good quality Dual Cd's. No O/S crashes to worry about, PS/2 Keyboard Connection. Large Brightly Lit Alpha Numeric Displays and dual Audio Outputs - one for each player.

If we chose a removeable hard drive option, then upgrading would be a breeze, simply buy a larger capacity HD and plug it into the cradle, thats it! - no need to take your Laptop to a dealer and pay ££££'s for the same facility.

Okay, these are the preliminary idea's for a design, which the designer has come back with.

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I see the following system in my mind: an Aluminium flightcase enclosure, with 2 complete mp3 players installed, each with a large 240x64pixel display. (40x8 characters) Each players feautures a removable haddrive bracket. Installed inside each of the removable brackets, is my USB circuit and a notebook harddrive.  You basically pull out the bracket from the system, and on the side there is a USB connector.  You simply plug this into any win2000 or win2K system ,and you can transfer files to your heart's content.  No PSU or other cables required. We can also mount the USB port on the side of the flightcase somewhere.. we will typically have a slider for each of the players (like in your picture) and also a couple of buttons. A nice option will be to be able to plug in a standard PS2 PC keyboard to the system, to make input easier for when you are searching for titles.

Comments?, Questions?, Suggestions?

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we will typically have a slider for each of the players (like in your picture) and also a couple of buttons.

Didn't quite understand what was meant by this?
slider for what; the pitch control?

Would it be able to have features such as auto fade/segue between the 2 players? auto bpm detect, tempo control, cue points, editable loops?

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Didn't quite understand what was meant by this? slider for what; the pitch control?

Yes, that was the general idea. I sent him details of a Standard CD Player, and this was one of the features that he picked up on. It looks like it could be added to the design.

With regard to the other features, i'm passing this info on to him by email, and he's also got access to this thread, so keep the idea's coming.

Obviously the more features, the higher the price, some may prefer a basic system at a reasonable price, others may be willing to get the Denon / Pioneer / Numark features for the price. Whether these features would be available on an MP3 Based system, I have no idea, but I'm sure that the designer would be able to advise me.

Could the drive bay be made to accomodate normal 3.5 in pc drives as well as the small laptop drives ?,

Laptop drives are more expensive and much smaller in storage capacity ?

I presume that you'd be able to store the music in folders on the drive, ie 1 folder for soul, 1 for 90's, 1 for reggae, 1 for rock etc. To access these folders though, I would guess that you'd need a mouse, unless you used a keystroke combination on the keyboard.
I personally would be willing to pay more for better reliability and more features; little extra's which I don't use often but which come in handy sometimes like a brake on each player, which you're able to control the length/time of.
There's a couple of other idea's I have which I'll add a little later.

Another thought ..

Would it really need 2 HD's ? for playing , as drive 2 would only be a duplicate of drive 1 ,,

The second drive could be used as a backup only ... maybe even an option to instanty update the backup drive with the main drives content

The faster 3.5 drives would allow the players controller to access and search even whilst playing on the other side of the player ..

OK Ninelives, my serve

The mp3 control unit I currently use has a lot of useful features. I've just put a picture of the unit complete with descriptions of features onto my site (but removed links to the manufacturer, retailers etc)
You can view it here
Features like the sample player can be very useful, as they can be used to put jingles/sound fx over tracks etc. It can hold samples of upto 1 minute and holds 9 samples at any one time.
This unit has a LOT of useful features, the only downside to it at present is that it has to be used with Windows

OK Ninelives; your serve again... or shall we let Chris have a serve now

The Pioneer CD Player we use at the Local club has lots of features similar to that - however realistically how many features do you need unless you are a mixing jock?. I find that on my own Cd Player, the Play / Pause button is far more worn than the Pitch Bend feature

Obviously the more features that are available the better, although the main attraction for me, would be in getting rid of the 3000+ Cd's that I have to lug around with me, whilst being in mortal fear of the odd guest "permanently Loaning" a cd(s) from me without my knowledge .

I'm sure that these levels of features could be added, although you should certainly expect to pay Denon 9000 prices and then some!.

The original idea was to offer a budget system, which would offer similar features to those struggling to use Archos / Creation portable players. Certainly you don't get BPM displays and samplers on them, but you'd be surprised how many people actually enquire about them . I know of one person who is using a converted Automotive style M-Station for Mp3 Playback - Yes it works but not very practical!.

After talking to my contact, I have come to the conclusion that Bill is correct. It would be possible to use a single HD for storage / playback and cut a large amount of the cost from the design . whilst still maintaining an essentially dual system with two seperate audio outputs.

If we could offer a unit that has the features of the one that Eskie linked, but eliminating the need for a PC / Laptop running windows then we would be on to a winner

Looking at the poll, I think that most people are looking to pay under £500 for a system, if you need some of the features mentioned then that is going to be highly unlikely!. If you think of how much a Laptop would cost you, coupled with the Software / Control Panel featured, then you would be paying far more than £500 - possibly more than that just for the Laptop alone.

I'm passing all of this info and Eskie's link to my contact, keep the suggestions going!.

The KISS one is all I would need

Okay, the idea behind using Notebook / Laptop drives is that they are more resistant to viberation than standard 3.5" versions . However, given 19" rack mounting, then even a 3.5" drive should be more shock resistant than the average Cd Player without buffer memory!. We can look at prices for both options later.

I have invited the designer to join in the discussion, and hopefully he will be on the forum later, to add more details, so if you want to add any questions or feature requests then now is a good time to do it.

I am going to arrange to buy a "prototype" unit from him (depending on what price structure he comes back with), for more detailed testing and evaluation before I start offering them for general sale via this forum.

Hopefully, I may be able to include a few of the veterans, Mikeee, Spin, Pete, Ninelives etc in loaning them the unit for a period to allow them to post their conclusions.

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however realistically how many features do you need unless you are a mixing jock?.

Although I do mostly mobiles these days, some of the gigs that I do, I am doing a lot of mixing, hence why many of these features are quite handy for me.

One other feature that would be handy. With the system I use at present, the default display lists all tracks in alphabetical order by artist, but double clicking on any of the columns such as Song Title, Genre, BPM, etc will put the sort order of the column clicked, ie someone asks for a track but they're a bit sketchy on the actual name and don't know the artist. In this scenario simply using the search facility may not find the track (even by using wildcards), but listing all tracks in alphabetical order by song title may well make it much easier to find the track the guest is talking about.

Additionally, being able to sort the bpm's is also very handy for the mixing jocks... You're playing a track and your mind has gone blank about what to play next; one quick double click and the tracks are in bpm order, so you can browse through tracks of a similar bpm to what you're playing and find something that would suit the mood and be able to mix in to what you're playing.

Eskie, just a question regarding the Control Panel that you are using (The one in the link).

It does display the BPM of the track, but I noticed in the spec that this was linked and displayed from the ID3 Tag of the actual MP3 track, and so, not being hardware derived, not entirely accurate - unlike the CD Players with the same feature.

I believe that most of the information on MP3 ID3 Tags is input by the actual user when it is originally ripped from the CD (Title, Artiste, Album, Genre etc) so what would happen if the BPM area on the Tag was left blank, does it not display on the unit's LCD readout?.

Eskie,

the unit you use, is it connected to a laptop or PC?

do you use 1 or 2 sound cards?

do you still need the keyboard & screen or can you access the songs via the remote unit?

thanks

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so what would happen if the BPM area on the Tag was left blank, does it not display on the unit's LCD readout?.

if the id3 tag doesn't have the bpm stored then the unit will display the bpm in red (as opposed to bpm displayed in white for a stored id3 tag). To store the bpm in the id3 tag you just have to press the 'Memory' button followed by the 'Set' button. Once this has been done the bpm is then displayed in white.
Only problem with this is that many tracks have fluctuating bpm's, especially anything made pre-drum machine era, but once a bpm is stored it stays at that number and doesn't indicate whether the actual bpm is increasing/decreasing unless it hasn't been stored; i.e. if it's displayed in red still, the bpm will go up and down as the bpm changes. This is one weakness with my present system.

Ian

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the unit you use, is it connected to a laptop or PC?

It's on a specially built pc, encased in a flightcase.

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do you use 1 or 2 sound cards?

I use a Midiman Delta 44 Soundcard
This has extrememly good sound quality, and is much better than using the Creative Soundblaster type cards. I previously used the Soundblaster live soundcard. When I cnahged over to the Delta the difference in sound quality & volume level was absolutely astounding!

QUOTE

do you still need the keyboard & screen or can you access the songs via the remote unit?

I do still use a TFT flatscreen, keyboard and mouse although it is possible to access all the directories, sub-directories etc simply by using the remote control. But for ease of use, I find using the TFT, keyboard and mouse much better.

(From other Thread - standalone mp3)

This could be a very good idea for DJ use indeed. Space saving and cost effective.

But I would like to ask a few of questions:

1) Has the device got potential to add on more hard drives, is it unlimited or restricted to 120GB?
2) Could the device be configured to plug into a monitor, TV or have a scart socket connector (Euro Connector)?
3) If you developed a stand-alone model where a buyer would just plug in a hard drive/s or future add-ons, what do you estimate the product to cost, as not all DJ's are technical minded?
4) Is the device NTFS compatable as well as Fat32?
5) Is there a way to combine Mini Disc Technology as well as CD? Now it might seem far fetched but look at the potential. No music judder on playback. Music / Data storage. Compact and robust! Digital playback, etc.
6) If the device is produced in a rackmount or as a box unit, I presume it would be fan cooled?
7) If it is standalone but has a PC port, could you technically use a laptop or PC's hard drive through the unit?
8) As technology is rapidly advancing to allow this type of development, is the unit upgradeable, say, via a newer released chip set at a later date?
9) Is it possible to develop a 'wai list' of mp3 plays - or 'jukebox' mode / random mode within a 'folder'?
10) Is it possible to have an additional jack bridge port connected, eg, an add-on of various 'outs' including mini, jack, phono and, if possible, optical out????

I think the whole idea is brilliant. 100%

Best Wishes
Dan
DD

[SIZE=1][SIZE=1]Oops
maybe I replied to the wrong thread.
Well here we go again..

this is Carel Speaking, from the company in SA contemplating the design of said DJ mp3 player.

As to the comments from Dan, here goes some answers:

1)Has the device got potential to add on more hard drives, is it unlimited or restricted to 120GB?
The system will be typically able to use upto 2 hardrives, both limited (for now at least) to 120Gb. (not that this is much of a ceiling in my opinion) I am not too sure whether copying between drives will be supported. This is a lot of work.

2) Could the device be configured to plug into a monitor, TV or have a scart socket connector (Euro Connector)?
Not as the idea stands now. Anything is possible though..

3) If you developed a stand-alone model where a buyer would just plug in a hard drive/s or future add-ons, what do you estimate the product to cost, as not all DJ's are technical minded?
I am not sure. Once we have the product specs outlined, we can do a prelimenary design and get a ballpark figure of costs involved. Suffice to say that it would be comparable to a mid-range dual CD player.

4) Is the device NTFS compatable as well as Fat32?

No, only FAT32 supported.

5) Is there a way to combine Mini Disc Technology as well as CD? Now it might seem far fetched but look at the potential. No music judder on playback. Music / Data storage. Compact and robust! Digital playback, etc.
No, not this time around. Compactflash cards can, however be supported.


6) If the device is produced in a rackmount or as a box unit, I presume it would be fan cooled?
We will typically go for a 19" rack. I doubt that the unit will require any cooling at all. This is not a PC, so we are looking at a total power consumption of about 30W max.
(unless we for some reason decide to include an optional power amp too)

7) If it is standalone but has a PC port, could you technically use a laptop or PC's hard drive through the unit?

I am not too sure what exactly you mean here. I suspect you are asking whether you will be able to play files via USB, located on a disk in another computer. If that's your question, the answer is no..

8) As technology is rapidly advancing to allow this type of development, is the unit upgradeable, say, via a newer released chip set at a later date?
The unit will not be upgradeable in the sense that a user can go and buy a plug-in card and simply upgrade his system. If the product does well, we will defintely be keeping up with improvements like AAC and MP3-Pro, but at this stage MP3 will suffice. I in any case doubt that MP3 will get bumped from its status as defacto standard very soon.


9) Is it possible to develop a 'wai list' of mp3 plays - or 'jukebox' mode / random mode within a 'folder'?
Yes, definetely


10) Is it possible to have an additional jack bridge port connected, eg, an add-on of various 'outs' including mini, jack, phono and, if possible, optical out????
I have no idea what you are asking here.. Please xplain..

Regards to all, and please let the comments roll in. We are especially interested in how many people will be interested in actually buying one of these (eventually), assuming the cost to be comparable to a mid-range dual-mp3 player. (how much are those, by the way?) Please understand that it is all very good and well to develop a great product to fit a specific market, but we need to feel confident that this market is worth the considerable investment of developing a player..

cheers
Carel

Cost is something that myself and Carel will need to discuss.....Off Forum ideally I think under £500 is NOT going to be realistic especially with some of the features that you folks are expecting

Maybe the £700 - £1000 retail figure would be more realistic, after all it isn't like there is much competition and if you weigh up the other option namely the cost of a Laptop, Decent Soundcard, Upgrade of the HD and Memory and Software and the optional Control Panel then I don't think that this will be that excessive.

Certainly being 100% hardware based with no operating system, or likelyhold of crashing, coupled with the fact that it will be made for the Job, rather than carrying around an expensive, delicate laptop should give it a bit of an edge.

QUOTE

10) Is it possible to have an additional jack bridge port connected, eg, an add-on of various 'outs' including mini, jack, phono and, if possible, optical out???? I have no idea what you are asking here.. Please xplain..

What Dan is asking here, is would you consider putting say two or three option's of connecting the Audio from the unit to the Mixer. Industry Standard usually dictates that the outputs of Audio Equipment are on standard RCA "Phono" sockets, I think that Dan wants to know if you would consider other Audio Outputs Options such as 3.5" Stereo Jack Sockets (Headphone Style Outputs), XLR Sockets etc. Maybe a Balanced Line Audio output could also be considered as an option?.

Dan also wanted to know if it would be possible to connect the output of the unit digitally, using an Optical Output Jack, which is basically a digital output as used on Mini Disc Players and some CD Players.

Dan, I think that being realistic that this would be impractical, since Mp3 technology works in a different manner to that of Mini Disc and CD - and would require specialist DAC's and circuitry. But I'll let Carel research it.

Thanks Chris for explaining my thourghts!

Hmmm, I agree that all little 'extra's are going to bump up the price of a unit like this, but, say in the future, if the foundation is laid for potential add-ons, then I see a 'range' of models, like 'low entry model' to a 'pro end model'.

Chris, what is the difference to the new iPOD mp3 device and this one?
There was an article in the tabloid press recently about them.

Regards

The Ipod isn't as unique as you may think, in fact it joins the long list of Personal Mp3 players to hit the market. It's just that Apple have spent a little bit more on Advertising than the other manufacturers - hence the media hype . There are some other features on the Ipod that leave the other personal players standing - such as firewire connection and a slightly better display - although note the empathsis on the word "Personal" throughout this post!.

You can pick up a basic H.D based MP3 player for around £140 for a 6gb version or £189 for a 10gb. The problem with these players is that there is no search facility - hence the D.J may have to scroll through 3000+ tracks to find the one he wants!, and the display is very small - around 2" square on the Ipod, which isn't exactly useful.

Oh and the biggest drawback - You need a Mac to use one!, they are not PC compatible, although the other players, such as the Creation Jukebox are.

Using a personal MP3 player for disco use is comparable to Sending a Text Message on your Mobile Phone, whilst trying to find one single track in a vast, poorly organised CD collection .

Info on the Ipod can be found Here