I have just been wondering if you guys and gals think vinyl will ever die as a dj format. obviously people will still have there old colections but i'm talking about the sales side more. i personally think it will 1 day prob in about 5 to 10 years. i still buy vinyl now but i buy more cds than vinyl.

I agree.. And I think it will be way less than 10 years....

When you look at the Denon DN-S5000, or DN-D9000 (thanks for the help Gary! ) or the Pioneer CDJ1000 - You can see that the vinyl days are almost definately up....

A friend of mine is off to Ibiza on Sunday and came to purchase some vinyl to take with him.... It cost him a fortune to buy it - some of the tracks were scratched and all of them were in the wrong order etc in the shop (HMV and Virgin - Were the only ones left open) So all in all wasnt a fantastic experience.

I used to be the "Vinyl will never die" person , but after trying to carry the 1210s in, and then even just an 80 x 12" record box (which is usually heavier than my 600watt speakers..), I'm knackered - And can fit the same amount of tunes onto like 5 CDs... Which I can then scratch, seamlessly loop etc with any of the above CD decks ....

Just my viewpoint I know, but I dont think mobile DJs will continue to use vinyl in the future - Too heavy, easily damaged, expensive and there is better out there. Club jocks maybe as it's only the tunes they have to take...

This reminds me of the old Betamax vs VHS debate in the 80's. The die hard Betamax fans hung onto their precious machines right up until the day that the blank tapes and new releases stopped being available for them, and that actually took a lot longer than many people realise.

I think vinyl will always be around, although I think that it will always be limited in availability locally, and maybe only available from mail order, or specialised outlets.

A good indicator is to watch the Equipment Industry - I know that Denon and Pioneer have being able to mimic the control that you get with vinyl on their CD Players for some years, however start worrying about Vinyl becoming totally extinct when Technics replace the SL1200 /10 with a CD Player

Which opens up another debate....will DVD replace VHS....but thats another thread lol

I've voted that vinyl will not die, primarily because there are too many manufacturers making turntables and if neccessary they will get their own pressing plants for the 'exclusive dance white labels etc.
The swanky club dj's love their exclusiveness and like the Northern Soul and Funk scenes of the 70's that hard rare to find track makes you a king amongst that public.
As for mobile dj's I agree with Tonsk, it's enough work lugging the kit around as it is apart from adding cases of 7" and 12" records and decks.

I agree, there are too many club DJ's out there playing vinyl

Sorry to dissapoint guys but here in Norway they fazed out vinyl sales more or less overnite, this is a town of 50 thou as and it is not possible to buy vinyl.Vhs films will be gone here within the next 6 months. Where Djs are concerned i feel that a lot of todays vinyl jocks stop djing quite early and i bet there aint many of the old mobile guys here who still lug crates of vinyl around.

for mobiles I agree that vinyl is a dead duck, however most club DJ's only take a bag or 1 case to gigs, 2 at the most so it is not so much of a problem to them


i still feel that vinyl will never die

im holding onto all my vinyl... theyre the antiques of the future! Even those 7" can be worth a bob or two..... found a site where it gives the values of some vinyl... and boy, my retirement fund is gonna be good!

I still buy old soul & dance tunes on vinyl at Boot sales etc, last weekend I found 2 copies of Expansions by Lonnie Liston Smith on 12", easily worth £50 each, my investment £1

i think that in alot of cases - yes vinyl will die - but i cant ever see people using cds for free parties/raves etc - just wouldnt be the same!

QUOTE

found a site where it gives the values of some vinyl...

Lets us all share then Kazz................ we all gotta retire sometime!

Sin

QUOTE

im holding onto all my vinyl... theyre the antiques of the future

Especially those that you bought when you were a girl...they'll be Antiques already

thats you off the birthday cake list cripsy...... with the era of vari speed cds, apart from the "hand on" and "scratching" bits, you can do so much more with a cd these days.

QUOTE (kazzachi @ Aug 22 2003, 01:33 PM)

thats you off the birthday cake list cripsy...... with the era of vari speed cds, apart from the "hand on" and "scratching" bits, you can do so much more with a cd these days.

Wow this 1 is close. Kazz you can scratch and be hands on with the DN-s5000 as it has a moving platter on top that spins just like a vinyl deck. (jeez im starting to sound like Gary lol )

adios vinyl then!

Kaz,

Please don't get vinyl mixed up with those old 78's that you may have.
I think they were made out of slate or something like that.

Spinko

QUOTE

found a site where it gives the values of some vinyl... and boy, my retirement fund is gonna be good!

Damn it! Read this legged it to the cupboard quickly came back with a handful of lp's & no link!
Karen, wheres the link?

These one's I Just got out are still priced, 15'6 & 19'11 hmmnn wonder how much that is? & 1 for 26p...oooooohhh

Oh dear oh dear 15/6 would be about 77.5 pence and 19/11 is nearly a pound............. if that helps ?

Spin

QUOTE

Oh dear oh dear 15/6 would be about 77.5 pence and 19/11 is nearly a pound............. if that helps ?

Thanks spin!
Now who wants ta buy the skinhead moonstomp or pehaps a tighten up v!

Anyone got electric warrior? in good nick you'll get a tenner! so they say

OVER MY DEAD BODY IT WILL DIE! which is not expected for at least 60 years

QUOTE

OVER MY DEAD BODY IT WILL DIE! which is not expected for at least 60 years

In that case it will be over your dead body!

Going...going....g...

Vinyl is already dying. Ive got some interesting facts and figures on exactly how, but they're on my home PC rather than my mobile, which Im using at the moment. I'll post the info up in the next day or two, when I get home.

Sorry to keep you all in suspenders until then (not sure this spellchecker is 100%)

never! wahhhhh i'll just get final scratch then

QUOTE (mobile_dj_crooks @ Aug 23 2003, 08:21 PM)

never! wahhhhh i'll just get final scratch then

Lol you are going to have to face it. I wonder if they will offer therapy for all the vinyl junkies out there, like create a programe were they slowly wean then from buying vinyl and start trying to convince them that cds are there friends. Ive got to say i do love vinyl but its only going to take a few small advances in technology and a few changes in the attitudes of the record producers to start realesing white lables on cd and it will be bye bye vinyl (well in my humble opinion)

QUOTE (Dj_Kray @ Aug 23 2003, 09:45 PM)

but its only going to take a few small advances in technology and a few changes in the attitudes of the record producers to start realesing white lables on cd and it will be bye bye vinyl (well in my humble opinion)

I receive white label promo's on CD, in fact it is probably easier for the record & promotion companies to send these out, compare the cost of producing a 12" piece of vinyl, to that of burning multiple CDR's. Some companies even send me MP3's by email

spinko! I have a message for you written on my knuckles... you will have to stand VERY CLOSE to read it though!! Slate - 78s! huh!!
And crooksey! I can remember the days when everyone said eight tracks would never die..... where have they all gone!!

Paula, to enusre your retirement fund and get those prices, all I did was do a search for vinyl collectables and voila! There are tons of sites giving prices and some who will buy them too... but I suggest we all hold on to em for a good while to come.... remember the froggy smash adverts! Thats whats gonna happen with the next generation..... "... and they put them on a turntable, stuck a needle on em and they played music"

KEY WORD WAS "FINAL SCRATCH"!

.... and I thought the subject was "will vinyl ever die"!

QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Aug 22 2003, 08:25 AM)

A good indicator is to watch the Equipment Industry - I know that Denon and Pioneer have being able to mimic the control that you get with vinyl on their CD Players for some years, however start worrying about Vinyl becoming totally extinct when Technics replace the SL1200 /10 with a CD Player  :P

As Chris point(on)s out above, the equipment industry acts as a good indicator to the overall trend.

So, lets take a look at the Music Industry Census Data, which is a US compiled document, which covers many aspects of the trade, from cables and stomp boxes, to (you've guessed it) CD-decks and dear ol' turntables. (oh, and by the way, I never reveal a source... )

DJ Turntables
Year..... Units Sold..... Increase/Decrease on prev year.
2001..... 91,000..... -9.9%
2000..... 101,000..... .3%
1999..... 100,700..... 5.7%
1998..... 95,200..... 6.9%
1997..... 89,000..... n/a

CD Decks
Year..... Units Sold..... Increase/Decrease on prev year.
2001..... 55,100..... 37%
2000..... 40,100..... 29.7%
1999..... 30,930..... 20%
1998..... 25,775..... 16.5%
1997..... 22,125..... n/a

The 2002 data is still very sensitive, and obviously still in use, hence its abscence from the above data. However, if you project the trends forward, with vinyl turntable sales falling overall, and CD-deck sales increasing, it can been seen that CD-decks should outsell Vinyl turntables in just 3 years. (and we're already halfway through those 3 years...from the end of the 2001 census data).

Heres a happy thought, about the above data too...in 2001, when turntable sales fell by 9.9%, that was dispite the "average" unit price (of a turntable) dropping from $215 to $147...meaning turntables sales totaled only(!) $13,414,000 in 2001, compared to $21,715,000 in the previous year.

Apart from the amazing features which CD-decks can do nowadays, compared to the dark days of the original players, which offered "Play", "Stop", "Next Track" and a copy of Dire Straits "Brothers in arms" for a mere £329 (circa 1983). I put alot of this trend down to the retail trend of phasing out vinyl (and something "domestic" to play it on) from the high street.

To explain; its a given fact that the majority of wannabe DJ's are teenagers, or early 20 year olds. Take a look in these guys and girls rooms and count how many CD's they've built up over their music-loving years so far...OK, now count how many vinyls they've got....Hmmmm. The cost of buying equipment can be daunting enough, without a wannabe connecting all their new gear up, and realising they've got nothing to put under their stylus.

Hardly surprising therefore that the last couple of years, (and this years Plasa too) have seen very few new turntables being launched (OK, a couple of MK numbers changing and a couple of "Now even higher torque" tweaks hear and there), but a whole host of new CD-decks.

As for Chris's comment of

QUOTE

start worrying about Vinyl becoming totally extinct when Technics replace the SL1200 /10 with a CD Player

Technics are indeed working on a CD-deck with a motorised platter for vinyl-like control, but I've no confirmation yet that its going to be ready, even in prototype form for Plasa. Besides, its not likely to be a replacement of their turntable (yet), more hi-tech, modern counter-part. Numark already have their prototype "doing the rounds" (see it at Plasa, but dont tap it too hard! - The Blue Peter sticky tape is still fresh). Interestingly enough, the patents for any kind of motorised platter cd-turntable are owned by one company...

So, the question isnt really "Will vinyl die?" anymore, simply "How few years will Vinyl take to die?".

For me, I've still got a pair of Technics which I dutifully wire up every show, on the off-chance that someone will request something which I havent got on CD yet. More and more often, I come to pack up at the end of the night and after a few seconds searching for the stylus covers, I find them - still on the stylus's. If my Technics blew up tomorrow, I'd only be looking for ONE simple direct drive turntable. I'm (thankfully) using stylus's at a much more economical rate than I used to, but wonder if the steady increase in stylus prices over the last few years, will accelerate as the overall industry-wide trend of reduced turntable (and therefore) usage, affects stylus and cart sales.

Time will tell.

s ! that means i DEFINTILy have to buy a laptop with my technics...and final scratch

Have to agree to BOTH sides of the argument!

Vinyl will never completely die - night club managers are too TIGHT to purchase the likes of a Pioneer or dedicated CD mixing system!!!!!!!!!


But the truth is - all the time we have 'Superstar DJ's' spinning on the wheels of steel.......

.....imagine, like asking Status Quo to give up Guitars and play Akai Samplers instead of instruments!!!!!

Or expecting Oasis or U2 performing with Fruityloops - Live?!!!

The mobile or bedroom Jock has the choice of both worlds!!!!!!!!

Long Live the 12", 33rpm and 45's!!!! (Now where's my Mrs Mills album.....)

QUOTE (discodirect @ Aug 27 2003, 04:44 AM)

night club managers are too TIGHT to purchase the likes of a Pioneer or dedicated CD mixing system

Except the dedicated managers!!!!!!!

that's the way to say it dicso! Vinyl will live, even if they will only see turntables through Final Scratch! i love that system

QUOTE

(Now where's my Mrs Mills album.....)

Now her picture on the album sleeve was scarey, You could imagine her chasing after you through the fields with a large scythe (sp)

Mrs Mills' revenge....Mrs Mills the sequel.....Mrs Mills Does Dallas (oops changed into ADS there for a moment!).

I can see a entire range of horror films based on Mrs Mills, Whats you favourite scarey movie....*Spooky Laugh*. Get me Stephen King on the 'phone I have an idea!

QUOTE (discodirect @ Aug 27 2003, 04:44 AM)

.....imagine, like asking Status Quo to give up Guitars and play Akai Samplers instead of instruments!!!!!

Its fair to say (IMO) that Status Quo probably wouldnt give up their guitars, I would imagine then saying something like "Guitars are all we've ever been used to, thats all that we're going to consider"

Similarly, there are some DJ's who think the same, but transpose the word "guitars" for "Vinyl".

However, with respect to Status Quo, they, and their viewpoint will retire someday, making way for the bands who'll say..."we've used real guitars for this track, and synths for that track..."

For some DJ's its a lack of up-to-date knowledge...eg: They looked at CD-players a few years ago, didn't like what they saw, considered the whole CD thing a "no no", and vowed to stick to vinyl forever, (and ever, and ever....na na na....Kylie©2002)

Also, there are those who have kept semi-up-to-date but are simply held back (NOT by their own skills) but by the fact that they are DJ's in clubs who's managers who are suffering from the first symptom mentioned above. This is more easily overcome. The few clubs that I've played recently, I've take my own CD-decks in with me, having arranged in advance with the club manager that I promised to re-connected the mixer exactly as I found it, afterwards. (and did so....thank heavens for sticky labels...)

finally, the music industry itself it not releasing all of their new releases on CD yet, especially some of the smaller labels. Judging by some of the emails which I've received some companies are scared of the ease in which CD Audio files can be copied, others are not sure about the demand etc. Most, however, have confirmed that they didnt realise that CD-deck technology for DJ's had developed to the degree shown in the attachments (of hardware currently available) that I included in my emails to them.

This last point is a circular issue of course. Some DJ's/clubs wont buy CD-decks yet, due to some music labels not offering up-front tunes on CD's.......Some music labels wont offer up-front tunes on CD's due to DJ's not using CD-decks yet.

Maybe the industry should take a look at the way that the Betamax Vs VHS wars were won all those years ago (Chris mentioned this first). For those of you who might not know of any other video formats...a little history...from the late 1970's. Betamax offered a much better, cleaner, video and audio reproduction than VHS, or the (double sided) Video2000 system. However, VHS became the standard when a few of the Pro-VHS VCR manufacturers got together against Betamax, and subsidised the prices of the blank VHS tapes, reducing the cost of a 3 hour VHS tape from £10 to about £6. Betamax didn't. VHS therefore looked more appealing to those households who envisaged themselves building up massive tape libraries of all their favourite films etc... of course, you can still watch "The Wizard of Oz" and most of the Bond films 3 times a year, without owning a video recorder...)

Given how cheap CD's are to mass produce, is it so unthinkable for labels to offer all their 12'' vinyl singles with a free CD featuring all the same tracks...thereby giving DJ's the choice of what to play that night...as well as giving them the opportunity to play the CD in the car, to get used to the layout of the tune, in preparation for however they're going to mix it in later?

Vinyl definately, absolutely wont disappear overnight...no way at all. However, the trend is definately moving away from vinyl on an annual basis.

I received an e mail a little while ago from a company that sends me promo's, its small bits from an interview with Eric Morrillo (superstar dj and record label owner!). Thought i would post some of it for you to look at as its relevant to this topic.

------------------------------------------------------------

Digital CD decks challenge vinyl


Erick Morillo is a keen supporter of the new equipment
The success of a digital system that allows CDs to be scratched and mixed in the same way as 12-inch records could mean the death end of DJs using vinyl, a top DJ and record producer has said.
Erick Morillo, boss of Subliminal records and one of the most influential DJs in the world.

"I'm letting technology take over," Mr Morillo told BBC World Service's The Music Biz programme.

Live remixing

The key to the system - which resembles a small version of a vinyl deck - is a grooved, touch-sensitive jog wheel, which allows records to be stopped and scratched at any time.

Until now, the inability to do this was one of the key reasons DJs had shunned performing with CD decks.


"When I'm DJing with vinyl, I'm bored now," Mr Morillo said. "With CDJs you can loop the records at whatever point you want.

"I take my filters and I'm remixing records on the fly."


Abandoning vinyl



"Many DJs are still using vinyl, but they're now using vinyl alongside CD, simply because of the extra performance value,"

The specialists will argue there's a certain sound you're missing, and absolutely, they're right

Erick Morillo
"DJing is becoming very competitive, and DJs are now looking for alternative pieces of hardware to enhance their set and give them the edge over the competition."

Mr Morillo confirmed that he and his record label were abandoning vinyl in favour of the new technology.

"It's funny because I was a spokesman for vinyl. About two years ago I said vinyl will never go away, vinyl this, vinyl that," he said.

"So now, I'll probably be the person that is going to spearhead this whole changeover to CDs and being a vinyl label, it's kind of weird to hear me say that.

"With each vinyl release, we're going to include a CD with all the mixes as well, because that's where it's going."

Mr Morillo conceded that the complaint most often levelled against CDs by vinyl enthusiasts - that the sound is too clinical and lacks warmth - remained true.

"The specialists will argue there's a certain sound you're missing, and absolutely, they're right," he noted.

"But the convenience far outweighs the little sound that you may be missing."

Thanks for posting that - its very relevant indeed.

QUOTE (johnnyb @ Aug 27 2003, 01:05 PM)

Mr Morillo confirmed that he and his record label were abandoning vinyl in favour of the new technology. "It's funny because I was a spokesman for vinyl. About two years ago I said vinyl will never go away, vinyl this, vinyl that," he said.

"Two years"

I think that this is an indication as to exactly how fast the technology is moving.

As for that age old stuff about the loss of fuzzy warmth from Vinyl, I've found that its one of those tiny differences that is just descernable in a quiet room at home, with a pair of headphones, but is lost completely through most mixer/amp/speaker combo's in a live dancefloor environment. Besides its easier to equalise in some "fuzzy warmth" into a CD sound system, than add clarity and remove surface hiss, rumble, scratches and pops, from a vinyl one.

I've certainly never had anyone come up to me and query the sound of a tune from either CD or Vinyl...

Im gradually moving all my vinyl over to CD, using the Hardware/Software combination of "Steinberg: Clean Plus" and with a few seconds of care, nothing important, or noticable to the audience, is lost.

A difference between CD Audio/Vinyl and MP3 files is slightly more noticable. But, of course, if you're using MP3's alot, either from a laptop, or a CD-based MP3 player (such as the Gemini MP-3000x) then Chris has a stunning Behringer device for your sound system....Haven't you Chris!

If I wanted to buy vinyl I would have to make a 50 mile round trip every Saturday afternoon. Haven't brought vinyl since about 1990.

Speaking from the Norwegian side of things, there are 5 clubs in this town and we actually made sure that they all have the pioneer system for cds by basically saying we wouldnt play unless the clubs installed em! Lucky? Sorry Denon man ,have had some bad luck with them

QUOTE

Lucky? Sorry Denon man ,have had some bad luck with them

I must admit - speaking from an unbiased point of view ('cos I sell both Pioneer and Denon!) that neither products are immune from problems .

From a personal level, I used a, then industry standard 2000F for 12 months, then things started to go wrong!. It would fall into "sleep" mode for no reason whilst playing!. The tracks skipped, and it would crash and lock up - needing frequent switch on / switch off excercises to reset . Meanwhile the old £249 non "name" Dual CD which was then around 5 years old, dented and covered in beer stains continued to be hired out with no problems at all!!.

Pioneer also have problems to. The one I use in the club has problems reading some CD's - usually the CD Singles which contain "extra's" and bonus tracks like Video Snippets and PC CD-Rom material .

If you need big features, or a turntable replacement for mixing then you will need to invest in Pioneer / Denon / Numark level of equipment. However if you just want to play CD's and do a basic level of mixing (like me lol) then I would never pay more than £400 for a dual cd!. Call me thrifty, but the German Manufactured CD I have now is almost 4 years old, used several times a week, and has never skipped or locked up once!. Plus it also plays the CD's that the Pioneer spits out.

One local D.J I know, uses two domestic £39 CD Players from a certain large discount Hi-Fi chain!! and they've lasted for years, so don't say i'm tight with my money!.

I think that if one stops trying to be fashionable\cool etc and adapts a willingness to try all the options that are available then its often the cheap non brand name that is best.I prefer the pioneer cdj100s but as you state sometimes they spit out cds,mind you some of my cds are pretty dirty! I like the mixing possibilities on them, i did nt get on very well with the denons at all but i admit its 5 years since the last time i tried denons so they hopefully have improved.

The "industry standard" 2000F did have one or two software problems, but then again, they are now coming up for being 8~10 years old, and have been superceded by other Denon models, several times over.

In nearly all current electrical goods, theres some sort of software, and its obviously critical that its right.

The last few models of Denon...the 9000 dual rack mount, the 5000 and new 3000 motorised platter CD-decks all feature user loadable software upgrades. That way when Denon want to add more features to the existing models, or enhance the scratching sound, or adjust the units behaviour (bug fix)...all the user has to do, is load in a simple data CD, and two minutes later, they've got the latest version of the machine.

As far as I can remember when the first twin CD players came out there was a budget company called Limit who produced one, I got it, about 10 years ago, it is still working, gets used most weekends and has never been serviced,as for 'more popular' names I have used them and brioken them and everytime gone back to my Limits !

Yes, the cheaper machines get bad press, just because they don't have a big name, or affiliation with certain well known mix d.j's . To be honest (And I am being honest - since I would make more profit selling you a Pioneer for example than I would selling you a £179 Soundlab), I would never spend £1000 on a CD Player based on reliability alone.

Yes, if you need features then you'll need to pay for them, but don't part with a small fortune just because you think that by buying a named brand and spending £1000+ means that it will never go wrong, because they do!.

If you just want to cover Mobile function, and need a basic dual player with standard features and a pitch control then aim for the "budget" range, and in 5 years it could still be working happily!. Although I would advise that you buy a model with anti-shock buffer, but even these only come out at around £250 these days .

However if you need to mix to a very high standard, and want a virtual Turntable using CD's then you will need to part with some serious money and look at the high end of the market. But for most mobiles, a cd player is a cd player and cost and reliability is more important and I cringe whenever I hear a dealer brainwashing some 16 year old kid, that he needs a £1000 top of the range CD Player to do kids parties purely because "DJ XXXXX" uses one in Ibiza or on Radio 1!.

I remember repairing the old Denon 2000F's, and finding that the laser pick up that was used in their £995 2000F was also exactly the same component as used in their £99 DCD hi-fi models and cost less than £15! .

Could agree with you more Chris, with respect to Gary and other club DJ a CD player plays a CD single from start to finsh, then the other deck starts and does excately the same, and for most of us that is all we need it for. If you need more features then you will have to spend more money, much in the same way if you want a car to go to the shops in a Mini will do, if you need to travel around England you would spent more to get better comfort anfd other bits.

I have to agree that the more you pay doesn't always mean that you will not get grief. Denon are shite, I bought one a while back, and it spent more time being repaired under warranty than it did playing cds. I reached the conclusion that they were simply keeping it in the workshop for as long as possible, hoping that the warranty would run out. Never again and in my view the Denons and pioneers have now got so many features that there is simply too much to go wrong with them.

I don't know about the other folk on here, but I find that i'm far to busy finding the next request, taking requests, dealing with the drunks and so on, to be worried about spending precious minutes checking BPM's. I've watched some of the young d.j's working, standing there watching flashing lights and spinning dials when they would do far better to be watching the dancefloor since they've probably cleared it by then. Do any mobile jocks really have time to stand with their headphones on for minutes carefully beat matching whilst they have a large number of punters on stage wanting his attention?. For me a cd player is an important piece of kit which should be reliable and functional and play cds. I'm sure that denons have a place in the clubs where the dj's are tucked away from the audience in safe little booths but from my own point of view i've rarely got time to find and cue up the next track.

I have two cd players, one is a very old BST, still going strong after 7 years, and it cost me £399. The other is a Gemini bought 2nd hand for £90 no idea of its age but it still works 100%.

Its a shame, but I can see how its possible for the one problematic unit which you owned, tainting your view of an entire brand (well brands...since you mentioned Pioneer also). Luckily todays units are more or less problem free, in my experience.

I use 4 Denon CD decks on a mobile rig and am pleased to say that they have never let me down.

In a perfect world,nothing would ever go wrong, however, realistically, only a very foolish manufacturer is going to say that their equipment would never go wrong, no matter how simple, or advanced it is. You were obviously one of the unfortunate minority who, for whatever reason, had a faulty unit. It happens, every make, every manufacturer...my mate has branded the entire range (every single model) of Nokia mobile phones, with the same "S" word that you used above, simply for the reason that his 8000 series Nokia had to have 3 new displays. Its just a quick way of him venting/directing his frustrations of being without his phone for 3 occasions. Understandable, as is your viewpoint.

As for the use of all the advanced features on todays CD-decks, yes, Im not only able to apply the features to full dancefloor, but enhance the show too. Obviously, I dont use all th features at once, but its great knowing that if youve only got 3 minutes, left and the end of the night, and a 4 minute track of say...."New York, New York" or "Angels" etc, yo can instantly recall a seamless splice which you set up on that track a few weeks ago.

Consider this also. Its happened to us all...youre playing a track from a CD, and its going down really well. You instintively "know" what would mix in well with it, and keep the dancefloor full, only to discover that the tune youre thinking of is unfortunately on the same CD thats already playing...a couple of years ago, the only option was to mix over to some other, less suitable track, on a different CD, then mix back. Not any more...Alpha track allows me to mix two tracks, from the same CD, at different pitches, into different channels of my mixer. Its one of the most useful features that Ive ever encountered.

However,I would agree with you that some techology is "too" ahead of its time. About 2 years ago I was seriously let down by a Pioneer CMX~5000...it stopped dead, mid~track and refused to aknowledge any button presses. surprise surprise, there was a "voluntary" recall of the offending units, but the venue I was at had not done anything about it. However, despite being red~faced in front of almost 1100 people, I remain subjective about my views on specific products from that manufacturer, rather than blanketing the entire companys product portfolio as unreliable.

Youve only got to look at some of the Denon user forums to rid yourself of concerns over the current, widespread reliability of Denon units.


feature where you can play or mix 2 tracks off the same CD

Technology will never replace good, experienced DJing, but it can certainly suppliment it very well.

QUOTE (kazzachi @ Aug 24 2003, 06:18 PM)

remember the froggy smash adverts! Thats whats gonna happen with the next generation..... "... and they put them on a turntable, stuck a needle on em and they played music"

Froggy adverts? Froggy adverts???????

They weren't froggy's !!! They were robots

As a reminder, have a look under "Portfolio" and "Classics" for the Cadburys Smash Advert, at:

http://www.bmp.co.uk/flash/home.html

Wow this 1 has actually stayed on topic. i do agree with loads of the points made the 1 thing that really sticks out is the fact of only buying what you really need and will use in a cd player i have 2x pioneer 500s and a denon dn s-5000 and for mobile use i hardly use many of the features of the denon but i do when i play clubs but i do have to take it and plub it in every time which is a pain.