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Professional Mobile Disco & Wedding Disco
wizard
I have just started downloading tracks from Tesco's .........prompted by my local record store closing down ( MVC has called in the administrators and they were the only store near me that sold cd singles).

The quality seems better than I expected considering it's only 192kb.

I can burn these to Cd but using them at a gig they are gonna look like pirated stuff. The license info is stored on my home p.c. but how do I prove they are legal if someone asks...... just keep and carry with me the receipt e-mails from tesco's ??

And I assume I am ok using these at a gig once burned to Cd .... or do I assume wrongly.

I don't intend using them on a laptop..... cannot be hassled with more licensing rubbish. their is way too much without that.

DJ Marky Marc
QUOTE
And I assume I am ok using these at a gig once burned to Cd


In this business it would be wrong to assume anything...

If you were found at a Gig with Burned CD's by the MCPS gestapo doing a spot check then it would be like dealing with the tax man...

They would offer you a fine first and if you dont wish to pay it they will invite you to a court room to prove you have the licence for each and every track.

now its on your head to prove you paid for each and every track and that the licence small print allowes you to play these tracks not for them to prove you dont if you get my point...

becuase the licence small print of downloaded tracks is very diferent to shop bought cds you also run the risk of not being allowed to play any of these down loads with out a digital DJ licence....

Is it worth the hastle you ask your self...

Is it worth the risk. can you prove you have paid for every single track if asked ?

I personly wouldn't take that risk. I would invest in the Digital DJ licence keep all the tracks on my home PC and register every track in the collection with the MCPS as per the terms of the Licence.

every time this subject comes up we have DJs saying they are going to stick two fingers up at the MCPS and its all rubbish and that no one will get caught etc etc, but if you want to play music this way one day at some point you will need to take them seriously and do things right.

spinner
If it is legal to play a shop bought CD at a venue, why should it be illegal to play a paid for downloaded and burned-to-CD track?
DJ Marky Marc
QUOTE
why should it be illegal to play a paid for downloaded and burned-to-CD track?


never said it wasnt...

the point is that now the venue licence is under local athority control they have the power to close you down on the spot untill you prove that all your music is legal...

not becuase they care were you got your tunes from , but maybe they want a reason to turn things off due to noise issuse or some other lame reason due to trouble from drunk people on the way home...

they already used this trick on a local night club.. along with making sure the kebab shop closes no later than 1am.... mad.gif

now the club closing early and the DJ getting the sack i dont care about becuase the place is a dive and they needed a new DJ with some taste in music. But the kabab shop being closed long before i can get back to my home town after a gig realy upsets me....

Dont let the pen pushing jobs worths get you, Dont give them a reason to say no.
spinner
QUOTE (DJ Marky Marc @ Dec 26 2005, 03:38 PM)
QUOTE
why should it be illegal to play a paid for downloaded and burned-to-CD track?


never said it wasnt...

the point is that now the venue licence is under local athority control they have the power to close you down on the spot untill you prove that all your music is legal...

not becuase they care were you got your tunes from , but maybe they want a reason to turn things off due to noise issuse or some other lame reason due to trouble from drunk people on the way home...

they already used this trick on a local night club.. along with making sure the kebab shop closes no later than 1am.... mad.gif

now the club closing early and the DJ getting the sack i dont care about becuase the place is a dive and they needed a new DJ with some taste in music. But the kabab shop being closed long before i can get back to my home town after a gig realy upsets me....

Dont let the pen pushing jobs worths get you, Dont give them a reason to say no.

Thanks for the clarification. Nearly started a frantic search for all my Napster payments!
High Fidelity
I was about to buy a track from Itunes the other day, but then I spotted this in the terms and conditions.

QUOTE
You shall be authorized to use the Products only for personal, non-commercial use, and not for redistribution, transfer, assignment or sublicence, to the extent permitted by law.


So, if you play the downloaded track, and you're getting paid for doing so, then it's no longer "non-commercial". wallbash.gif

So, I didn't buy the track from Itunes, I went out and bought a CD with the track n it.

Don't know if all the other download sites have this in their terms of sale.
DJ Marky Marc
QUOTE
You shall be authorized to use the Products only for personal, non-commercial use, and not for redistribution, transfer, assignment or sublicence, to the extent permitted by law.


Like i said in my first post... read the small print.. downloads are not the same as shop bought CDs

in the case of Napster you will need a digital DJ licence to play the tracks.

not the same for all download services

so in a court case you would need to prove that not only did you buy the track but that the licence allows you to use the track at a disco...

now if the disco is you playing to your mates and family for free in your house you can do what you like..

But as soon as you go to a venue with a licence (a bar or entertainments licence) even if its still a private function things change...

If you get paid for the disco then you need the DJ licence to be legal with your napster down load..

and I dont think you will find any legal down load sites without this small print anymore....

QUOTE
Thanks for the clarification. Nearly started a frantic search for all my Napster payments!


You should have them already, tracks bought for your disco are an exspence and should come off your tax bill....

along with the licence needed to play them..
Chrispy
The last time I checked a CD it also contained similar wording regarding Unauthorised Commercial Use and public preformance Prohibited, so if you take the words "public performance" and "commercial use" to the letter of the law as some are doing above, then we are all breaking the law as soon as we play a CD to an audience. Like downloads, CD's are sold to the public on a non commercial basis. A bit like hiring a DVD from Blockbuster, you can hire one and show it at home, but not in a hospital, prison, nursing home etc - that would be illegal.

If you are using CD music in order to make money at a private function which is by definition, not covered by PPL licence requirements this would make it an unauthorised commercial use, because it is not licenseable.

Using CD's at a private function may not be penalised under the Public Performance section of the copyright prohibition, but it could be enforced under the Commercial Use area, since you are charging a fee, and the only way to meet both criteria would be to do private functions and work for nothing.

So it seems to me that we have one common denominator here, whether it's CD's or legal downloads, in that they both carry the same limited use.

Do you also know that the onus is on us, to check that the venue (or function room in the case of private functions) has a current, valid entertainment licence?, but how many of us actively ask to see and check this document?. If you are working a public function in a pub and the venue hasn't renewed it's entertainment licence or there are restrictions, then the DJ needs to obtain a PPL licence for the night, if not we are breaking the law, regardless.

Many venues do take liberties, especially over Xmas and how many unlicensed venues will be taking the risk this Saturday?

Oh and by the way, under some ancient law, it's also illegal to dance on the sabbath day, so remember to tell your audience that after 12.00 on New Years Eve otherwise you may find yourself clapped in irons in the Tower of London. rolleyes.gif
DJ Marky Marc
QUOTE
Oh and by the way, it's also illegal to dance on the sabbath day


its also illigal to have dancing in a bar that does not have Dancing on there entertainment licence (used to be a seperate licence from alcohol music and entertainment..)

I have played Pubs and bars where we have had to ask people not to dance due to the licence being out of date.....

dont you just love how backwards the law in the UK is...

Next you will have the venue sue you becuase you got people to excited and one of them fell over and hurt them selfs
Chrispy
QUOTE
dont you just love how backwards the law in the UK is...


1780 to be exact, that makes it errr errr almost 226 years old.

QUOTE
in the case of Napster you will need a digital DJ licence to play the tracks


I thought that only covered converted tracks ripped from CD's and did not extend to legal downloads. In any case, the Digital Dj Licence does not cover the MCPS aspect of the track. So even if you have bought a Digital DJ licence, you still need to seek permission from the MCPS and the individual record labels of every track you intend to convert.
spinner
QUOTE (Chris_Pointon @ Dec 26 2005, 04:27 PM)
QUOTE
dont you just love how backwards the law in the UK is...


1780 to be exact, that makes it errr errr almost 226 years old.

QUOTE
in the case of Napster you will need a digital DJ licence to play the tracks


I thought that only covered converted tracks ripped from CD's and did not extend to legal downloads. In any case, the Digital Dj Licence does not cover the MCPS aspect of the track. So even if you have bought a Digital DJ licence, you still need to seek permission from the MCPS and the individual record labels of every track you intend to convert.

Perhaps a return to vinyl is the answer?
DJ Marky Marc
QUOTE

Perhaps a return to vinyl is the answer?


I wish this was the case :)

wizard
seems like the situation is worse than it was when I first started in 1971. tongue.gif

I will just carry proof that I have paid for the tracks and see what happens.

bit of a laid back attitude you may think Marky Mark, but until someone can actually tell me the difference between a shop bought CD and a downloaded purchased one written to CD ( I cannot see any) then that's how it'll be fear.gif
High Fidelity
Just looking at my vinyl 45 copy of Dave Clarke Five - Glad All Over, and guess what it says on that.

QUOTE
Unauthorised public performance broadcasting and copying of this record prohibited.


So I suppose that at a private party you could get away with it, but a function open to the public, ie: bar, charity event, hotel chrismas parties etc are a no no, even playing vinyl.

People have probably been breaking the law since the first wax cylinder. If you went into a record shop and asked to listen to a record before you bought it, then taking the law to the letter, the shop was breaking the law if it played it for you because you are a member of the public.

Aint British Law wonderful. wallbash.gif
robbiedj
The situation as it appears is that downloaded cds are subject to the small print of the provider. Napster allows you to use a track on 2 pcs and burn up to 3 cdr copies, other sites vary. I know the situation at Napster because they informed me.

But according to PPL this only applies for personal use therefore they are saying you need a digital DJ licence. MCPS also claim you require an SG6. As you can see it is very confusing. NADJ has set up a working party to address this. Talks will begin in January with both PPL (about DDJL) and MCPS (to actually discuss and plan their new licence as they agree that technology has overtaken their current legislation)

The working party will be posting on a number of forums and are in contact with other associations to keep all informed. The intention is to try to establish a draft plan and submit it to the working DJs before going any further.

Keep watching and let them know your sensible and constructive opinion when asked. We don't want destructive criticism but common sense.


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