Sound Limiters

[Daz35 0]

QUOTE

Just a possibility, but does the village hall have a sound limiter ?

 

This should probably be a separate thread, but I too hate these things.

 

In fact, if I am aware of them, I wouldn't actually take work on where they are installed.

 

The last place I worked at that had one was ridiculous; I started to introduce the Bride and groom for the first dance and the damn thing cut me off, which was fantastic when you've the attention of 200 people and no power!

[DJ Marky Marc 0]

Dont try this at home but,

 

sound limiters (or the ones i have encounterd) tend to have little holes where the mic is located and a little bit of chewing gum tends to sort them out.

 

http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/whistling.gif

 

but i dont recomend any one do this as you could land your self in hot warter !

[kazzachi 0]

NEVER ask the caretaker if you can bypass the limiter... wait til he goes and then find a plug that isnt on the same circuit... so make sure you take plenty of cable! Del did a gig nr guildford the other week in a small hotel... they had a limiter... which was broken... so del fixed it for them... but set it at a much better level than the 90db it was originally set at!

[ChrisPointon 0]

It has to be said that most limiters are just fitted into venues by the local sparky. Ok you get a nice safe installation that complies with all the Electrical Legislation but most electricians wouldn't take the trouble to set it up, or even have PA equipment handy to set it up!.

 

As a result, most limiters are just electrically installed, and left set at their factory default settings - which is also often their minimum! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/scared.gif . This is when you find that the limiter trips well below the legal noise pollution limit, and you end up having problems.

 

Don't tamper with the limiter itself unless you know what you are doing, most are fitted with covers and disconnecting the sensor mic will result in the unit tripping out immediately until it's re-connected.

 

Attacking a limiter, or trying to sabotage it, can leave you open to charges of criminal damage, so don't take a hammer to it, or start sticking things in it no matter how frustrated you get.

 

Instead, take Karens advice, and run an extension cable from a kitchen or another room close to the stage. However, take care that you still keep the volume fairly low. If you do attract complaints from the local residents and you are found to be bypassing the limiter it can leave you open to a fine of upto £5000. In other words, if you do bypass the sensor, be sensible and don't draw attention to yourself http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif .

 

 

 

 

[paula 0]

I'd never seen a sound limiter until this bunch on here brought the subject up last year!

All week I'd been reading there stories thinking they cant be that bad and what do you know!?! I turned up at a hall that weekend to find one http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/scared.gif http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/014.gif

Funnily enough I got offered an ojamaflip last week...whatcha call em? that needs a slight bit of repair to it. http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/smile.gif

[Steve 0]

At a venue a few month ago with no chance of bypassing the limiter, music wise it wasnt too bad just by taking some of the bottom end off but mic work was a night mare.....had to be so quiet with music talk over impossible.....it was either the mic or the music

 

Hard to see why the limiter was installed, the venue wasnt near any residential areas and I guess this one was on lowest setting...

[transeurope 0]

Anybody who has worked in Ireland will be very very very familiar with these.

 

The legal system in Ireland is far more American than the UK and lawsuits tend to be for (by UK standards) enormous amounts of money and very difficult to shake off. To my dismay the UK seems to be doing everything it can to catch up with the US in double quick time. In Ireland you don't have advertisements on the radio offering free lawsuits. They are still illegal. If I were to guess at the future I would say that very shortly the UK will surpass Ireland in its addiction to US style lawsuits.

 

So I can tell you a lot about these things. Firstly, in Ireland...case law has established that if a publican has destroyed the ability of someone to enjoy their house he is basically liable for "blight" to the property. This is the devaluation to value caused by inability to sell owing to loud music. We are talking telephone numbers here...many tens of thousands of Euro have been awarded for this element of the claim alone.

 

Aditionally blight caused to life is a separate award. Inability to perform well at work owing to lack of sleep and even strain on marriage can be added into the award.

 

Installing a limiter is not a get out for the publican. It is not a defence to say "I have a limiter installed". The acid test is that they plant a microphone in the plaintiff's house that records the sound levels. If the sound is present it is no defence to say that the bar had the music really down low on a limiter.

 

Frequently the real cause of the problem is that the acoustic structure of the building takes all the sound created by the DJ or the band and converts it into a bass thud, in much the same way as an infinite baffle speaker box design does. Therefore the music inside the bar can be very reasonable, but next door all you can hear is thud thwack.

 

Initially a lot of Irish venue owners installed Formula Sound Sound Guards to solve the problem. Eventually most had to either modify the structure of the building to change its acoustics, or, in most cases, stop music all together.

 

 

Ten years ago, I would have said the UK had a more sensible legal system than Ireland, although similar. By the tenet of the ads I hear on the radio in the UK now....I would predict that very shortly, the UK will end up even more litigatious than Ireland.

 

In Ireland, DJs and bar owners have been arrested and jailed for upto 30 days for causing noise pollution. It happened one night in a bar I was playing in. The police came in with a copy of a court ruling from a neighbour and asked me why I was playing the music so loud. I said I was following the instructions of the owner. They went up to the owner, who fortunately agreed he had told me to raise the volume. They read out the court order, asked him if he understood it....he said yes, but he felt the neighbour and order were unreasonable. They said if he was aware of it, and ignored it...they had no option...and that was the end of him for ten days...in the slammer! http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/scared.gif

 

I really don't know what would have happened if he said that I had ignored his requests to turn down the music...thank goodness he was honest. As well as the jail term he also ended up paying EUR120k to the neighbour.

 

 

Sound pollution issues are serious. I would not in any way leave myself wide open to legal action bypassing devices, no matter how stupid or ineffective they are. I came that close to a ten day jail sentence that night. If someone is stupid enough to book a gig in a place with a sound limiter, that's their tough, not mine.

 

[otronics 0]

Are we talking about using in-house PA systems with our set-ups or using our own and having to fit the limiter in somewhere? Me is confused.

[kazzachi 0]

Well fortunately for us in good old england, we dont get jail sentences for bypassing limitors........ the worst that COULD happen would be that we got our equipment convisgated....... I cant imagine anybody jailing someone over a little noise problem!... especially considering the cost of keeping anyone behind bars....

 

Not sure what you mean about lawsuits.... unless you mean that there are tons of not very good solicitors who have decided the only route open to them is the personal injury one?

[High Fidelity 0]

QUOTE

Are we talking about using in-house PA systems with our set-ups or using our own and having to fit the limiter in somewhere? Me is confused

Sound limiters are installed in the building wiring, normally in the circuit to the mains sockets nearest and on the stage area.

 

There is a sensor fitted in the ceiling somewhere in the room and if the sound level reaches a preset level, it cuts off the power to the mains sockets for a short while, ussually about 2 minutes.

 

Some of them have a light in them that gives you some warning that you are approaching the limit. If the light is flickering you are getting close to the limit, if it is on constant, get ready for it to cut in.

[otronics 0]

Got it, one of those things I've never come across yet, or maybe I have but was just lucky!!

[Softoptions 0]

Oddly enough, I like sound limiters as they prevent people coming up and asking you to crank the volume up when you are already close to your upper limit.

 

 

[nrgize 0]

I done a 40th Birthday party at our local Football Club Hall. They have a Sound Limiter unit there. So what I did was run a cable from the kitchen and plugged the sound system into that and 1 light, then from the sockets connected to Limiter plugged the rest of the lighting into it. So when it did cut out only the lights would have gone out, and you could carry on but without any lights and turn music down for a while until you can reset limiter unit. Most venues I have been to that have limiters, you have to wait 1 minute until you can reset it which seems very long when you have a packed hall! Formula Sound ones are used most often I have found and you can see on the lights how far you are away from it cutting out.

[nrgize 0]

This is the first image I have put on here so hopefully it works. This is the unit that is used most often in halls I have found. Anyone else seen this lovely unit that makes our life a misery ??

 

 

http://www.formula-sound.com/Frames/Downloads/Photos/Sentry800.jpg

 

[Gary 0]

Nasty little beasties, Noise Iimiters. But nothing to worry about.

 

The best piece of advice that I can offer is to ALWAYS introduce the audience to the sound limiter right at the beginning of the night. point at the traffuc light/wall display if it has one, tell the audience that the limiter is set very low in this venue compared to other places that have them fitted, explain that the limiter will no doubt turn your power off for X seconds several times that night.

 

That effectively lets everyone know that when silence ensues, its not your gear, its the venue thats playing silly badgers

[brianmole 0]

Formula sound make some very good kit, but every year at PLASA, i feel like putting the Sentry up their http://www.dj-forum.co.uk/html/emoticons/censored2.gif !

 

I turn down any booking where there is a sound limiter.