I Know Its Been Talked About Before

[UKHero 0]

You have to laugh when you read what some people put when looking for a disco.

 

"It is a suprise 21st party, consisting of mainly family & close friends. (not rowdy!) starts at 7.30am - until 1.30pm. bet quote so far £120. I'd like mostly R'n'B, dance and cheesey music to be played".

 

Who in there right mind would do a Saturday night for that kind of money and worse still she is holding out for cheaper.

 

The world has gone mad.

 

Nik

[Tommo55 0]

The sad thing is you just know she Will find someone who will do it for less! :wall:

 

Let's just hope there's three flights of stairs to climb and no parking near the venue eh! :joe: for anyone who simply quotes a lower price without doing their homework

 

 

[deejaymitch 0]

Who in there right mind would do a Saturday night for that kind of money

 

:djuhi:

 

ME! (if it was local and I had nothing else booked)

[DJMickeyk 0]

Fees are being driven lower and lower over here too, market is totally saturated with part-timers who are willing to work for half nothing, cheap equipment and free music are easily accessible and I only see it getting worse from here to be honest.

[UKHero 0]

:djuhi:

 

ME! (if it was local and I had nothing else booked)

 

 

Are you a part timer?

 

And don forget she is looking for less than £120 so what would you quote out of interest, just on the information given.

 

I could not make it worth my while at say £100 7:30 till 1:30 that's 6 hours allow 1 hour travel and 1 hour rig and de rig so that's 8 hours work not including all the behind the scenes bits and bobs.

 

Plus there is the hire of my equipment for the gig, wear and tear etc. Then you have to take off the tax element, cost of fuel it all adds up and eats in to any profit what seems like an easy £100 soon turns into a not so lucrative deal.

 

How would you break this down Mitch? And would you say that you are one of the reasons that this kind of customer exists?

 

Nik

 

Nik

[Raymilkybarkid 0]

I know where you are coming from...

 

Had a Bride contact me for a quote for her reception from 730 - Midnight on 11 September.

 

I had a 15 minute conversation regarding music, show etc then come the crunch when I said my prices start at £££ she said Oh but Fred Bloggs has quoted £100.

I know and understand that the market is now flooded with IMO "So called DJ's" using cheap equipment with little or no experience, using their illegal free music not paying Tax etc..

We have come across this many times in the past.

You need to in a loose term "seduce" the client into booking your service at the time of contact, sell yourself and your service, Give comparisons to booking a cheaper DJ e.g PLI, Pat Testing etc. I have won many jobs this way. Even raising budgets that people had set for their entertainment on Dutch Auction sites.

 

I would like to see a National Guild for "DJ's / Entertainment suppliers" where there are minimum standards that have to be met before you can gain membership.

 

There will always be someone who will do the job cheaper this goes on in ALL Trades not only ours.

 

Fees are being driven lower and lower over here too, market is totally saturated with part-timers who are willing to work for half nothing, cheap equipment and free music are easily accessible and I only see it getting worse from here to be honest.

 

I am a part-timer now but my rates are still the same as when I was FULL TIME.

There have always been part-timers, there has to be to gain the experience to take the steps to going full time. You wouldn't just wake up one morning a decide I'm going to set up a business as a mobile DJ with out testing the waters first.

DJ's come DJ's go not many of them last more that a year or so in reality. The people who have been in the business 5+ years will already have (should) a good reputation with most of their work coming from recomendations.

 

Fees are being driven lower but take a look at the economy, with debts rising, wages frozen etc people need to make cut backs. Our industry is a Leisure industry, people don't need to spend out on a party / disco / entertainment it is not an essential item.

 

On the bright side my bookings are up on last year but are at the prices of 2007.

 

Thats just my two pennies worth for what its worth.

 

 

[DJMickeyk 0]

I probably chose my words poorly Ray, i am also part time, as i don't depend on my DJ work as my main income, but I was referring to those that don't take the job seriously, working with rubbish equipment, little experience and a couldn't care less attitude, I would guess most of us are part time by definition. What you say about PLI etc is correct, but will only work on the more discerning customer, so the DJ who takes this route will have to be prepared to sit at home alot of saturday nights. Of course there are exceptions, some DJs can get away with charging good rates and will be turning away work, you appear to fall into this category, to get to there you just have to be exceptionally good. I have tried to make myself stand out from the crowd a little by getting into video DJing and karaoke lately, and am looking at investing in a set of quality uplighters, but thats a story for another day.

[vokf 0]

This is mainly about business skills and valuing your worth.

 

I'm a part-timer. Have had PLI/PAT since day #1.

I'm fairly happy to do a kids party for the rate mentioned (but normally provide 2hrs for about £120-£130) on an afternoon.

 

To prepare, provide meetings, manage the booking and actually provide the show on a Saturday night HAS to be worth it for me. Day job is stressful, and I do turn down gigs that are too low- I'd prefer to sit at home with a film than go out for £100

 

One of the best decisions we took, was to provide face-to-face meetings at the pre-booking stage. Its not always possible, but the offer of a quick chat is normally taken up, and is resulting in good bookings.

 

This "costs" us about 2hrs - 1hr meeting (or less), and travelling, then writing up notes.

 

The low-end guys won't do this, and during the meeting, we're building relationships/showing photos of past gigs/chatting hen/stag nights.. Not hard work!

 

 

 

I think Ray had a good comment to a bride who was after a similar low price... "per hour?" lol

 

Again, this has been discussed before, but for part-timers (with a full-time job), there is no tax-free allowance and you will be taxed on all your income from DJing. For me, this means 40% of this £120 gig would be given to the Tax Man (less any expenses).

So, I'm now getting £72 in my back pocket. If I'm then earning over ~£5K PA from DJing, then there is class 2 NI contributions - a few quid per week.

 

Add a few cokes/beer/lemonade from the bar, I could be taking home £60 for 8hrs work.. £7.50 per hour for a Saturday night as a self employed person...

Now, I've worked in low earning jobs - Peanut packing when I was 19, and things like that when I was laid off, so appreciate this could be seen as a good earner for some.

 

 

This assumes we've not had to purchase any requests, or using (and paying) a roadie, or any post-gig munchies.

If you're the type to slug soft-drinks/beer, you could actually LOSE money! lol

 

 

Add in other legit expenses are not included... (PLI/PAT/Equipment Insurance/Web Hosting/Paper/Postage/Clothing etc)

 

 

If the DJ does not have the above expenses, and is not declaring their income, then the money is looking ok, and even better if they do not pay for music.

However, they then become a soft target for their competitors - if it becomes known that they are not legit.... a quiet phone call to the HMRC can easily cause them problems...

 

Jason

[spinner 0]

A couple of weeks ago I had an enquiry for a surprise birthday party.

 

The enquirer had said how impressed she was with my website.

 

I sent a brochure, not expecting any further contact.

 

The enquirer responded saying "I think you should know that your competitors are quoting (between 36% and 50%) less than you".

 

She went on to say that, bearing in mind she really liked my site and I was the nearest to the venue, was there any room for compromise?

 

I responded that if she could get a professional operator with the the same level of service etc. (long list) for 50% less than my fee she should grab it with both hands.

 

I did not expect to get the booking. However I don't envy whoever does get it. The function room is on the 3rd floor and there is no lift, other than a small hoist used to send up kegs of beer!!

[deejaymitch 0]

Are you a part timer? (i)

 

And don forget she is looking for less than £120 so what would you quote out of interest, just on the information given. (ii)

 

I could not make it worth my while at say £100 7:30 till 1:30 that's 6 hours allow 1 hour travel and 1 hour rig and de rig so that's 8 hours work not including all the behind the scenes bits and bobs. (iii)

 

How would you break this down Mitch? And would you say that you are one of the reasons that this kind of customer exists? (iv)

 

(i) I am part time now but even when I was full time my answer would have been the same. And just to address the ridiculous, over-used stereotype, even though I am now part time again I pay tax, my music i s legal, I use quality equipment, all of which is PAT tested and I have PLI. Sorry to burst many bubbles out there but, just as it is true that there are many cowboys out there, it is also true that many DJs at the budget end of the market are as good, or even better, than many who charge a lot more. That's not aimed at anyone in particular, just a gentle reminder for everyone.

 

(ii) I was responding to your question "Who in there right mind would do a Saturday night for that kind of money". I'm not saying I would have quoted that price if someone had come to me directly, and I would never get involved with any sort of auction or haggling. But if someone rang me and said will you work this Saturday for £120, and it was a local venue and I had no plans, I might say yes.

 

(iii) If it was one hour's travel I wouldn't bother. 99.9% of my bookings are within 5 mins of my house. And at that fee I'd be offering a basic set-up where the set-up/de-rig would take nowhere near an hour.

 

(iv) I wouldn't break it down. I'd look at it as an expected extra few quid. I don't think I'm part of the reason these customers exist. I don't haggle and I don't go on auction sites. But I am willing to work for free sometimes, or for a low fee and beer, even occasionally for less than I would normally charge, if it suits me.

[DJTREV 0]

(i) I am part time now but even when I was full time my answer would have been the same. And just to address the ridiculous, over-used stereotype, even though I am now part time again I pay tax, my music i s legal, I use quality equipment, all of which is PAT tested and I have PLI. Sorry to burst many bubbles out there but, just as it is true that there are many cowboys out there, it is also true that many DJs at the budget end of the market are as good, or even better, than many who charge a lot more. That's not aimed at anyone in particular, just a gentle reminder for everyone.

 

(ii) I was responding to your question "Who in there right mind would do a Saturday night for that kind of money". I'm not saying I would have quoted that price if someone had come to me directly, and I would never get involved with any sort of auction or haggling. But if someone rang me and said will you work this Saturday for £120, and it was a local venue and I had no plans, I might say yes.

 

(iii) If it was one hour's travel I wouldn't bother. 99.9% of my bookings are within 5 mins of my house. And at that fee I'd be offering a basic set-up where the set-up/de-rig would take nowhere near an hour.

 

(iv) I wouldn't break it down. I'd look at it as an expected extra few quid. I don't think I'm part of the reason these customers exist. I don't haggle and I don't go on auction sites. But I am willing to work for free sometimes, or for a low fee and beer, even occasionally for less than I would normally charge, if it suits me.

 

Good honest post,and I have to say I agree with a lot of what you say.

It is so easy to say I wont do this and I wont go out for less than that but sometimes there are times when you have to bite the bullet and 'cut your cloth' a bit.

It doesn't have to be all the time,just when the occasion warrants it.

We would all like to be earning the big bucks but that doesnt happen for one reason or another but it doesnt mean that we are any less professional.

[DJMickeyk 0]

@deejaymitch good post, I also do a regular freebie for a local youth club and one time a girl range me (she was a student) asking if i would mind doing her 21st, saying she didn't have much to pay me with but would give me what she could, i appreciated the honesty and obliged as i was free on the night, she gave me a small fee and a few years later bought me a drink. I agree there are times when it is appropriate to work for a small or even no fee, despite having alot of overheads such as tax, music downloads etc.

 

That doesn't change the fact that there are alot of rogue operators who are in it for beer money, and will look for & work for these fees every weekend, with substadard equipment and a less than professional approach, these are the people I was referring to in my posts, not the likes of yourself.

[UKHero 0]

@deejaymitch good post, I also do a regular freebie for a local youth club and one time a girl range me (she was a student) asking if i would mind doing her 21st, saying she didn't have much to pay me with but would give me what she could, i appreciated the honesty and obliged as i was free on the night, she gave me a small fee and a few years later bought me a drink. I agree there are times when it is appropriate to work for a small or even no fee, despite having alot of overheads such as tax, music downloads etc.

 

That doesn't change the fact that there are alot of rogue operators who are in it for beer money, and will look for & work for these fees every weekend, with substadard equipment and a less than professional approach, these are the people I was referring to in my posts, not the likes of yourself.

 

 

I tried this with a local Garage due to forum rules I cant say what they said but it was two words and the second was OFF!!! I wonder why people think we as DJs should lower our price or give our time free.

 

Again this comes back like it or not to part time or full time. Nothing to do with professionalism.

 

I am full time If I work I have to earn or my garage wont fix my car. If I had a job then that would pay to fix my car and like it or not the DJ work would be a bonus.

 

That is my point. I don't know weather Mitch is a pro or cowboy operator I have my opinions on this from other posts from Mitch but they are only my opinions, i could be wrong and not to be aired here.

 

At the end of the day if no DJ offered to work for silly prices then our industry would be more viable.

 

All in my humble opinion.

 

Nik

[DJMickeyk 0]

I tried this with a local Garage due to forum rules I cant say what they said but it was two words and the second was OFF!!! I wonder why people think we as DJs should lower our price or give our time free.

 

Again this comes back like it or not to part time or full time. Nothing to do with professionalism.

 

I am full time If I work I have to earn or my garage wont fix my car. If I had a job then that would pay to fix my car and like it or not the DJ work would be a bonus.

 

That is my point. I don't know weather Mitch is a pro or cowboy operator I have my opinions on this from other posts from Mitch but they are only my opinions, i could be wrong and not to be aired here.

 

At the end of the day if no DJ offered to work for silly prices then our industry would be more viable.

 

All in my humble opinion.

 

Nik

Nik are you saying you've never done a freebie or worked for a greatly reduced fee for a charity or anything like that?

 

I think mitch said he has a residency, which by nature pays less than function work as we all know. I just took a fixed term residency until the end of August for about 60% of my regular function fee and the bar manager told me he could have gotten somebody for much less, but I had done a few nights there off and on over the previous 12 months and he wanted to have somebody reliable with a tidy set up so he was prepared to pay a little extra.

[DJTREV 0]

 

That is my point. I don't know weather Mitch is a pro or cowboy operator I have my opinions on this from other posts from Mitch but they are only my opinions, i could be wrong and not to be aired here.

 

 

NO need to spell it out,I think its all there in your post!!

 

Personally,I think it is unnecessary.

Stop worrying about the cowboys and concentrate on your business.If they want to work for very little money its their choice.

People who want value for money will go that extra mile and if thats what you are offering then you will benefit.If they want jeans,trainers and a tee shirt thats what they will go for and get.

Over the last year or so I have noticed that there is a lot of energy wasted on worrying about other people not working the way some people consider correct and yet I still read of dj's earning £250/500 for gigs.Some are apparently earning as much as a grand.

So it does seem to be out there if you are prepared to market yourself and your business.

Set your sights on the market you want and stop worrying about those that £60 Sid's because they will never be bothering you if you set your sights at the right level

[deejaymitch 0]

I don't know weather Mitch is a pro or cowboy operator I have my opinions on this from other posts from Mitch but they are only my opinions, i could be wrong and not to be aired here.

 

I'd be fascinated to hear them.

[UKHero 0]

Nik are you saying you've never done a freebie or worked for a greatly reduced fee for a charity or anything like that?

 

I think mitch said he has a residency, which by nature pays less than function work as we all know. I just took a fixed term residency until the end of August for about 60% of my regular function fee and the bar manager told me he could have gotten somebody for much less, but I had done a few nights there off and on over the previous 12 months and he wanted to have somebody reliable with a tidy set up so he was prepared to pay a little extra.

 

Yes I do do charity work but my original post was not about charity work, or was Mitch's first reply.

 

I also know that residency work is by nature cheaper again my original post was not about residency work.

 

Congratulations on getting the gig through your hard work and determination.

 

 

 

NO need to spell it out,I think its all there in your post!!

 

Personally,I think it is unnecessary.

Stop worrying about the cowboys and concentrate on your business.If they want to work for very little money its their choice.

People who want value for money will go that extra mile and if thats what you are offering then you will benefit.If they want jeans,trainers and a tee shirt thats what they will go for and get.

Over the last year or so I have noticed that there is a lot of energy wasted on worrying about other people not working the way some people consider correct and yet I still read of dj's earning £250/500 for gigs.Some are apparently earning as much as a grand.

So it does seem to be out there if you are prepared to market yourself and your business.

Set your sights on the market you want and stop worrying about those that £60 Sid's because they will never be bothering you if you set your sights at the right level

 

 

Why do you assume my thought on Mitch are bad ones?

 

I do not worry about others businesses but I do worry about the state of the industry I work in.

 

I am quite happy at where I am in the industry I am not a top earner because I don't think I am worth that kind of money. I am also not a bottom feeder as I think I am worth more than that.

 

My original post was to spark debate and it seems to have just done that which is good so bring it on lol

 

Nik

 

Surely that is fair enough is it not?

 

Nik

[DJTREV 0]

Of course it is ok.

The tone of your post indicated to me that you thought of him as a cowboy.If you didnt mean that then I apologise.

Not thinking you are worth it is probably the wrong way to be for a start.

As for myself,I think I am worth it but what lets me down is I dont think I have the right equipment.

I have allowed myself to get left behind in terms of lighting and source so I am scaling back for a while and adding to my equipment and hopefully by 2011 I will be where I want to be.

[UKHero 0]

Of course it is ok.

The tone of your post indicated to me that you thought of him as a cowboy.If you didnt mean that then I apologise.

Not thinking you are worth it is probably the wrong way to be for a start.

As for myself,I think I am worth it but what lets me down is I dont think I have the right equipment.

I have allowed myself to get left behind in terms of lighting and source so I am scaling back for a while and adding to my equipment and hopefully by 2011 I will be where I want to be.

 

That is how I meant it. I am worth what I charge I have worked hard on my presentation my client contact marketing etc. But I am not worth thousands of pounds. My lower limit is around £210 this is for a weekend gig (not residency) Fri or Sat basic hours local. I have charged as much as £750 but for a much more involved gig not local. I would say my average is around £300. So I feel I am in the middle ground as far as charging is concerned. My partner and I have provided 9 discos this week and I have an OB with the local radio station on Saturday morning where I am providing kit and myself as engineer.

 

Sorry if my tone comes across wrong I guess it is the way I type. I am quite direct in what I say and I understand this upsets some people for which I am sorry.

 

Nik

Edited July 23, 2010 by UKHero

[vokf 0]

Of course it is ok.

The tone of your post indicated to me that you thought of him as a cowboy.If you didnt mean that then I apologise.

Not thinking you are worth it is probably the wrong way to be for a start.

As for myself,I think I am worth it but what lets me down is I dont think I have the right equipment.

I have allowed myself to get left behind in terms of lighting and source so I am scaling back for a while and adding to my equipment and hopefully by 2011 I will be where I want to be.

 

 

Trev,

I wouldn't get too tied up with lighting. A neat set-up with the right tunes is more important.

I recently did a cracking gig with just 2 Par64s on the floor. It was a neat set-up though.

 

Jason

[DJTREV 0]

Its not a case of getting too tied up in lighting Jason,I want 2 flat panel par56/64 and a couple of uplighters.

Certainly,if I was into weddings in a big way I would be investing in a few uplighters because that is the way to go at the moment.