Motown/northen Soul

[Scottydunk 0]

What way would you class these as? Is Motown to you the classic Tamla tunes? Is Northern Soul regarded by yourself as British? Or do you hold it all under the NS label.

 

When I get asked for 'some Northern Soul' Im never sure what it is they exactly want and when I ask them to be more specific, the stock answer is 'you choose'. Just wondering how you regard this.

[Andy Westcott 0]

I haven't quite got to the bottom of this either.

I grabbed a couple of 'Northern Soul' compilations, but the music style and tempo varied widely. The only thing the tracks seemed to have in common is that I didn't know any of them...

[Robster 0]

I haven't quite got to the bottom of this either.

I grabbed a couple of 'Northern Soul' compilations, but the music style and tempo varied widely. The only thing the tracks seemed to have in common is that I didn't know any of them...

 

 

lol spot on what i thought lol

 

i bought quite a few northern soul CDs and i can't figure what makes them northern soul either and your right i hadn't heard of most of them either

[Neil of the Roadshow 0]

i bought quite a few northern soul CDs and i can't figure what makes them northern soul either and your right i hadn't heard of most of them either

 

Thank god its not just me then! I can't work out how anyone can like Northern Soul, its like poor quality Motown, which in itself is not much cop (I sweeping generalisation I know, some motown is really catchy and funky)

 

Plus if you get a Northern Soul crowd your dance floor turns into what looks like a dissorganised que for an engaged toilet.

 

Bizarre I tell thee.

[spinner 0]

The term "Northern Soul" was coined by the late Dave Godin on a visit "up North".

 

This was a reference to the fact that there was a preponderance of "lighter" sounding material being played when compared to the grittier, funkier stuff then more popular in the South.

 

Possibly a good example of Northern Soul might be "The Duck" by Jackie Lee ( one half of Bob & Earl ).

 

The interesting thing about this track is that when it was first issued in the UK ( I bought it in 1965 ) the term

"Northern Soul" hadn't been invented.

 

Northern Soul ( to me anyway ) means anything played and popular on the Northern scene.

 

Just to confuse the issue, some Southern Soul ( which emanates from the Southern states of the USA rather than played in the South of England ) can be classified as "Northern" because it's played on the Northern scene.

Edited September 7, 2008 by spinner

[Robster 0]

Would you class these as northern soul?

 

 

Queen Of Fools - Barbara Mills

Reaching For The Best - The Exciters

At The Top Of The Stairs - The Formations

Two Can Have A Party - Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrel

Under My Thumb - Wayne Gibson

Out On The Floor - Dobie Gray

The In Crowd - Dobie Gray

A Man Like Me - Jimmy James

Love On A Mountain Top - Robert Night

I'm Gonna Run Away From You - Tami Lynn

I'm On My Way - Dean Parish

Stop Her On Sight - Edwin Starr

Be Young Be Foolish Be Happy - The Tams

I Feel Love Coming On - Felice Taylor

I'll Do Anything - Doris Troy

You're Ready Now - Frankie Valli

Skiing In The Snow - Wigan's Ovation

Seven Days Too Long - Chuck Wood

Shake Your Tail Feather - James & Bobby Purify

[spinner 0]

Would you class these as northern soul?

Queen Of Fools - Barbara Mills

Reaching For The Best - The Exciters

At The Top Of The Stairs - The Formations

Two Can Have A Party - Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrel

Under My Thumb - Wayne Gibson

Out On The Floor - Dobie Gray

The In Crowd - Dobie Gray

A Man Like Me - Jimmy James

Love On A Mountain Top - Robert Night

I'm Gonna Run Away From You - Tami Lynn

I'm On My Way - Dean Parish

Stop Her On Sight - Edwin Starr

Be Young Be Foolish Be Happy - The Tams

I Feel Love Coming On - Felice Taylor

I'll Do Anything - Doris Troy

You're Ready Now - Frankie Valli

Skiing In The Snow - Wigan's Ovation

Seven Days Too Long - Chuck Wood

Shake Your Tail Feather - James & Bobby Purify

 

 

Since they have all been popular on the Northern Scene the answer has to be "yes" but Wigan's Ovation, Wayne Gibson and Frankie Valli are hardly Soul artistes.

 

But then Hey-Sah-Lo-Ney by Mickey Lee Lane when I bought it ( in 1965 I think on Stateside ) was an example of the Garage Rock of the time ( I first heard it at The Royal Ballroom, Tottenham ) yet became well played on the Northern scene and is included on a Goldmine CD - The Northern Soul of Swan.

 

 

[One Vision 0]

Apparently according to my mate who was a regular at the Wigan Casino and at the Twisted Wheel Manchester plus big on his NS at that time, its all to do with the tempo/beat or drum beat of the song?

So any track from Soul to Motown would be classed as NS if had that particular tempo/beat to it as NS had its own dance style which is what it was all about.

 

Am no expert on this subject but what I have picked up talking to my bud.

[spinner 0]

Apparently according to my mate who was a regular at the Wigan Casino and at the Twisted Wheel Manchester plus big on his NS at that time, its all to do with the tempo/beat or drum beat of the song?

So any track from Soul to Motown would be classed as NS if had that particular tempo/beat to it as NS had its own dance style which is what it was all about.

 

Am no expert on this subject but what I have picked up talking to my bud.

 

 

The "four on the floor" arrangement is right but that's not the only example of the genre.

[One Vision 0]

Just had a quick nosy on the net and this is how NS is described, I think to understand it you have to see the dancing in action to see the connection, I noticed on the Duffy track Mercy that they are dancing NS style.

 

Northern soul is a type of mid-tempo and uptempo heavy-beat soul music (of mainly African American origin) that was popularized in Northern England from the mid 1960s onwards. The term also refers to the associated dance styles and fashions that emanated from the Twisted Wheel club in Manchester and spread to other dancehalls and nightclubs, such as the Golden Torch (in Stoke-upon-Trent), the Highland Rooms at the Blackpool Mecca and the Wigan Casino. Northern soul dancing was usually athletic, resembling the later dance styles of disco and break dancing. Featuring spins, flips, and backdrops, the northern soul dancing style was inspired by the stage performances of visiting American soul acts such as Little Anthony & The Imperials and Jackie Wilson.

 

I quite like a lot of soul and motown and some that are considered as NS.

I find some of the NS tracks a bit over my head were am not really sure what the track is all about very obscure, a bit like some jazz music were unless your well in to the style it just doesn't make sense.

 

Its quite ironic in that although me and my mate both live in Cornwall we are both from the Manchester area, me from Bury and him from Stockport.

Unfortunately he doesn't get much chance to play NS as it just doesn't seem to work here in Cornwall, he did try doing some NS nights in the 80s-90s down here but just didn't take off.

 

The Frankie Valli one sticks out to me as you say ...hardly a soul singer but this is classed as Northern soul and no disrespect meant but it reminds me like something that would have been played on sesame street with one of those animations they used to do in the 70's when i was a kid

 

when you read the lyrics of under my thumb they do seem a bit un PC nowadays

 

i thinks its not so much a sound as a" feel " its so hard to pin down that's where the confusion comes in

 

Its quite ironic that you mention sesame street as I think the theme music could pass as NS as it does seem to have that beat to it

[Robster 0]

The Frankie Valli one sticks out to me as you say ...hardly a soul singer but this is classed as Northern soul and no disrespect meant but it reminds me like something that would have been played on sesame street with one of those animations they used to do in the 70's when i was a kid

 

when you read the lyrics of under my thumb they do seem a bit un PC nowadays

 

i thinks its not so much a sound as a" feel " its so hard to pin down that's where the confusion comes in

[spinner 0]

The Frankie Valli one sticks out to me as you say ...hardly a soul singer but this is classed as Northern soul and no disrespect meant but it reminds me like something that would have been played on sesame street with one of those animations they used to do in the 70's when i was a kid

 

when you read the lyrics of under my thumb they do seem a bit un PC nowadays

 

i thinks its not so much a sound as a" feel " its so hard to pin down that's where the confusion comes in

 

 

"Under My Thumb" is, of course, a Jagger-Richards composition and was recorded by the Rolling Stones on one their early albums.

[Andy Westcott 0]

Here's a bit of text from the inside cover of one of the NS compilations I have here:

 

"The success of Motown encouraged would-be singers, writers & entrepreneurs to grap a piece of the pop/soul phenomenon but few ever made it past the pressing plant, languishing in the long shadow cast by the formidable Gordy empire. ironically, out of this vast collection of failures came Northern Soul and it remains today, firmly rooted in the seemingly endless supply of rare American 45s."

 

Make of that what you will.

[spinner 0]

Here's a bit of text from the inside cover of one of the NS compilations I have here:

 

"The success of Motown encouraged would-be singers, writers & entrepreneurs to grap a piece of the pop/soul phenomenon but few ever made it past the pressing plant, languishing in the long shadow cast by the formidable Gordy empire. ironically, out of this vast collection of failures came Northern Soul and it remains today, firmly rooted in the seemingly endless supply of rare American 45s."

 

Make of that what you will.

 

 

A number of studios did, in fact, produce discs with a sound remarkably like that of the Motown group. One good example is material from Candy & The Kisses which could be mistaken as by Martha & The Vandellas.

 

On the other hand, Berry Gordy did his best to buy out the competititon some of which were going before his label and had a similar sound and used the same session musicians.

 

Ric-Tic/Golden World is an example. Edwin Starr was thought of as a Motown artist ( on the Gordy label ) by many but he became one only after Ric-Tic was taken over.

 

Stop Her On Sight and Headline News were both issued by his former label and came out in the UK on Polydor.

[Dream Catchers 0]

Another oddity of NS is that some of the "best" tracks were obscure and not a commercial hit.

 

Jim

[disco4hire 1]

Another oddity of NS is that some of the "best" tracks were obscure and not a commercial hit.

 

Jim

 

IMO Northern soul was not so much a genre, but more of an underground movement, originally started by the early Mods and Scooter boys back in the mid 60's. It had become mainstream towards the end of the 70's when it started to decline. By the early 80's it was little more than a small hardcore base of fans who still actively meet and organise events all over the country. There's also been a revival of interest in NS by the people who danced the night away to it back then, but IMO this group is more about nostalgia for the era, than a love of the actual music. This group are easy to please, just play the popular early stuff, but the aficionado's are a different matter, they tend to be real 'anoracks' and unless you are playing off original American pressed 45's, they don't want to know, the music doesn't seem to be the primary importance, most gatherings are more about the swapping, buying and selling of rare records, than listening to the music, the rarer it was, the better it was, what it sounded like didn't seem to come in to it. Others views may differ.

Edited September 7, 2008 by disco4hire

[spinner 0]

IMO Northern soul was not so much a genre, but more of an underground movement, originally started by the early Mods and Scooter boys back in the mid 60's. It had become mainstream towards the end of the 70's when it started to decline. By the early 80's it was little more than a small hardcore base of fans who still actively meet and organise events all over the country. There's also been a revival of interest in NS by the people who danced the night away to it back then, but IMO this group is more about nostalgia for the era, than a love of the actual music. This group are easy to please, just play the popular early stuff, but the aficionado's are a different matter, they tend to be real 'anoracks' and unless you are playing off original American pressed 45's, they don't want to know, the music doesn't seem to be the primary importance, most gatherings are more about the swapping, buying and selling of rare records, than listening to the music, the rarer it was, the better it was, what it sounded like didn't seem to come in to it. Others views may differ.

 

 

Mod started in London in the late 50's and by the mid 60's was on its way out. With the Summer of Love - 1967 - it was almost gone and Soul with it, despite the fact that The Stax-Volt Show toured here ( I saw the first performance at Finsbury Park ) as all the UK-based soul bands, including Zoot Money's Big Roll Band and the Alan Bown Set, switched to hippy-dippy psychedelia etc.

 

The scooter boy/parka wearer thing may have hung on for a bit North of Watford but it disappeared from London and the nearest thing that replaced it ( although not the same thing ),were the Brut-wearing skinheads and girls.

 

Whilst some mods may have been into what became "Northern Soul" they were not the driving force behind it, and it's a North of England thing anyway.

Edited September 7, 2008 by spinner

[Andy Westcott 0]

<showing my ignorance>

Wasn't the 'Summer Of Love' 1969?

</showing my ignorance>

Edited September 7, 2008 by Andy Westcott

[Dream Catchers 0]

Wasn't the 'Summer Of Love' 1969?

my ignorance>

From wiki :-

The Summer of Love refers to the summer of 1967, when an unprecedented gathering of as many as 100,000 young people converged on the Haight-Ashbury neighborhood of San Francisco, creating a phenomenon of cultural and political rebellion. While hippies also gathered in New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Chicago, Vancouver, and across Europe, San Francisco was the epicenter of the hippie revolution, a melting pot of music, psychedelic drugs, sexual freedom, creative expression, and politics. The Summer of Love became a defining moment of the 1960s, as the hippie counterculture movement came into public awareness. The Summer of Love is often considered as having been a social experiment, because of various alternative living styles that were utilized during this time, including: communal living; the free and communal sharing of resources, oftentimes amongst total strangers; and free love.

 

Jim

[Andy Westcott 0]

I could have saved you all that bother if I'd gone and looked it up myself! tongue out icon

 

Anyhow, there's now someone I need to go and correct...

Edited September 7, 2008 by Andy Westcott

[disco4hire 1]

I can't argue on your historical accuracy regarding the London scene, but here 'up north' where I lived, mods came into mainstream existence in the early 60's with the appearance of groups like The Who, Small Faces, Kinks and Yardbirds. We're probable a bit behind times up here, we still had the 'Teds' in these parts mid 60's !!

I started out as a DJ in the mid 60's and at that time, my friends and myself were very much into the Mod/scooter scene, and the music we played was a mixture of Motown and what is now referred to as Northern Soul, we referred to it as Soul at the time. I think the term 'northern soul' was invented nearer the 70's, but I was playing it in the mid 60's, there's no doubt about that. My friends from back then drifted from the mod scene, some progressed to the '70's Disco' scene while others reinvented themselves as skinheads, complete with Doc Martin's, high cut Levi's, red braces and Ben Sherman shirts. I don't think any went down the Hippie route.

 

[spinner 0]

Wasn't the 'Summer Of Love' 1969?

my ignorance>

 

 

I remember the music changing at one of my regular haunts.

 

It had been mostly Soul and Motown played then, one Thursday evening in 1967, "San Francisco" by Scott McKenzie came on.

 

It was downhill all the way for me then having been ( and still am ) keen on people like Aretha Franklin, Don Covay, Sugar Pie Desanto, Etta James etc.

 

Soul had come to prominence up until that time and began to recede.

 

I have to admit going with the changes for a while, going to see people like Jimi Hendrix, The Nice, Deep Purple, Creedence Clearwater etc etc